QED.
Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?
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- KVRAF
- 2797 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia
I'm a member of the shape-shifting reptilian elite, I do not fear human empires.
In all fairness, I think that is Apple's own fault. They started the whole thing themselves with their "I'm a Mac I'm a PC" campaign.Forgotten wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm I've never really hated any of the manufacturers as they all have their good and bad aspects, but find it really strange that no one ever called me a Microsoft fanboi while I was using Windows, but now I get called an Apple fanboi simply by merit of owning an Apple product.
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.
- KVRAF
- 11001 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere
Perhaps, although wasn’t that in response to Microsoft’s TV advertising that sarcastically compared a Surface to an iPad?
I don’t think it was all one way.
I don’t think it was all one way.
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- KVRAF
- 2797 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia
The infamous "Get a Mac" campaign ran from 2006 to 2009, the first Surface was released 2012. The "Apple Fanboy" is something Apple created themselves. Justin Long was the prototype for that.
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
+10000000mgw38 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:13 amI'm a member of the shape-shifting reptilian elite, I do not fear human empires.
In all fairness, I think that is Apple's own fault. They started the whole thing themselves with their "I'm a Mac I'm a PC" campaign.Forgotten wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm I've never really hated any of the manufacturers as they all have their good and bad aspects, but find it really strange that no one ever called me a Microsoft fanboi while I was using Windows, but now I get called an Apple fanboi simply by merit of owning an Apple product.
About the thread question: no
If the entitlements are relaxed and you can edit quarantine flags it means it didn't change anything. Oh yes the signature thing, it doesn't change anything. Nobody checks the signature owner, never. And signed code would run unsigned injected code, in the same way it was doing the unsigned one.
If all entitlements are forced or removed you can't protect your code at all, apart adding time bombs to your monolithic executable. You can't create a VM or even a compiler. For a cracker it would be the real heaven: they can reverse engineer the code easily
Everything is good if you are coding an arcade game for a closed system like a phone, but I don't see how it could be enforced in actual desktop architecture, unless they enforce a pure client/external server processing style or even worse, their app store for everybody (and business model). Yes, a closed read only system would work, but without the actual audio ecosystem.
My 2 cents: while a jail break doesn't make a sense on a phone, it would make a lot of sense for a desktop. So in the long term it doesn't protect from piracy. Anyway, no audio products, no piracy.
Last edited by Zaphod (giancarlo) on Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- 11001 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere
OK, so not even close...I didn't realize the Apple vs. Mac was from so long ago...
- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
how many mac vs pc threads are we gonna have?
Answer in the morning but I would suggest sticking to the topic, we dont need all these fights and I keep getting reports. So leave you statements out of ALL of the threads, not resorting to any name calling (even fanboi or the equivalent) because those are the threads I am going to DELETE. Please stop the memes as well...this thread deals with mac vs pc as well as piracy, are we getting the point yet?
I will never understand why I have to say this every single day of my life, PEOPLE THE RULES DONT CHANGE WITH EVERY THREAD
Answer in the morning but I would suggest sticking to the topic, we dont need all these fights and I keep getting reports. So leave you statements out of ALL of the threads, not resorting to any name calling (even fanboi or the equivalent) because those are the threads I am going to DELETE. Please stop the memes as well...this thread deals with mac vs pc as well as piracy, are we getting the point yet?
I will never understand why I have to say this every single day of my life, PEOPLE THE RULES DONT CHANGE WITH EVERY THREAD
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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Richard_Synapse Richard_Synapse https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=245936
- KVRian
- 1136 posts since 20 Dec, 2010
Why would any OS X owner (people who probably appreciate safety) install shady software at all? It would be a bad idea to do so, if the system is as vulnerable and easy to manipulate as you claim it is.Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:35 am About the thread question: no
If the entitlements are relaxed and you can edit quarantine flags it means it didn't change anything. Oh yes the signature thing, it doesn't change anything. Nobody checks the signature owner, never. And signed code would run unsigned injected code, in the same way it was doing the unsigned one.
If all entitlements are forced or removed you can't protect your code at all, apart adding time bombs to your monolithic executable. You can't create a VM or even a compiler.
Either way Mac conversion rates seem substantially higher than Windows, which indicates that Mac users simply buy what they like
Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
Maybe my post was not clear enough?Richard_Synapse wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:50 amWhy would any OS X owner (people who probably appreciate safety) install shady software at all? It would be a bad idea to do so, if the system is as vulnerable and easy to manipulate as you claim it is.Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:35 am About the thread question: no
If the entitlements are relaxed and you can edit quarantine flags it means it didn't change anything. Oh yes the signature thing, it doesn't change anything. Nobody checks the signature owner, never. And signed code would run unsigned injected code, in the same way it was doing the unsigned one.
If all entitlements are forced or removed you can't protect your code at all, apart adding time bombs to your monolithic executable. You can't create a VM or even a compiler.
Either way Mac conversion rates seem substantially higher than Windows, which indicates that Mac users simply buy what they like
Richard
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Richard_Synapse Richard_Synapse https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=245936
- KVRian
- 1136 posts since 20 Dec, 2010
It was clear- you're saying no, it makes no difference.
Our experience is simply the opposite. We believe it makes a substantial difference, i.e. less piracy not just for OS X 10.15 but ever since Gatekeeper was introduced. The ProTools AAX signing requirement has helped as well. YMMV
Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
I explained the no. It is not an opinion, it is a fact
About your point, it means nothing. Several teams are just focused on windows and there are historical tools there.
Gatekeeper is a joke if entitlements are not enforced. Basically you can inject the code before it is loaded, if you reverse engineer and you understand where it comes from. If unsigned code is loaded in memory it means the code was previously elsewhere, and it is not signed. But if apple deprecates those booleans I don't see a single way for creating a protection like ilok, for example. It would not be possible. It is not a suprise, they require it.
Here my forecast: they will allow entitlements for apps released on the app store, with the full apple business model on. It will be a long transition, but if I was the CEO I would move in this direction. A lot of money, a lot of control, and a lot of security.
Let's see if my forecast is good, we'll be back on it within few years.
About your point, it means nothing. Several teams are just focused on windows and there are historical tools there.
Gatekeeper is a joke if entitlements are not enforced. Basically you can inject the code before it is loaded, if you reverse engineer and you understand where it comes from. If unsigned code is loaded in memory it means the code was previously elsewhere, and it is not signed. But if apple deprecates those booleans I don't see a single way for creating a protection like ilok, for example. It would not be possible. It is not a suprise, they require it.
Here my forecast: they will allow entitlements for apps released on the app store, with the full apple business model on. It will be a long transition, but if I was the CEO I would move in this direction. A lot of money, a lot of control, and a lot of security.
Let's see if my forecast is good, we'll be back on it within few years.
Last edited by Zaphod (giancarlo) on Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- 1748 posts since 2 Jul, 2018
With software notarisation in Catalina macOS is not longer an open platform. Apple now got full control about what software is allowed to run on their system and which not - at least for legit conmmercial software. Now Apple also has full control about the developers - Apple can force us in the future to sell with the app store only. Apple also can raise the $99 fee for beeing an Apple dev to a much higher price. They can completely control the market.
Last edited by Markus Krause on Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
Agreed with you here and in the other topic
Let's see what will happen.
Let's see what will happen.
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Richard_Synapse Richard_Synapse https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=245936
- KVRian
- 1136 posts since 20 Dec, 2010
Less piracy = less cracks and/or less people using cracks. How Mac users will react to 10.15 and beyond is all speculation at this point.Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:46 pm I explained the no. It is not an opinion, it is a fact
Makes sense from Apple's perspective yes.Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:46 pm Here my forecast: they will allow entitlements for apps released on the app store, with the full apple business model on.
Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com
- KVRAF
- 1748 posts since 2 Jul, 2018
My assumtion for the future:
1) Pirated Mac software will be bundeled with a video which explains how the additional security layer can be bypassed manually be the user
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2) shell-scripts which bypass security are bundeled with the warez
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3) A couple of developer accounts get hacked and the certificates are used to sign all kind of illegal stuff
and
4) Hackers will use stolen credit cards to create 'developer accounts'. Then they will sign their cracks
1) Pirated Mac software will be bundeled with a video which explains how the additional security layer can be bypassed manually be the user
and
2) shell-scripts which bypass security are bundeled with the warez
and
3) A couple of developer accounts get hacked and the certificates are used to sign all kind of illegal stuff
and
4) Hackers will use stolen credit cards to create 'developer accounts'. Then they will sign their cracks