Change velocity within ONE note?

[lydentusiast]

In Waveform 10, is it possible to change velocity within ONE note?
I'm writing an orchestral piece, and at the start I want to have a timpani roll that increases in velocity. Just like the start of Edvard Grieg's piano concerto in A minor.
I have a perfect Kontakt timpani roll sample, and it is velocity-sensitive, but it changes only when I press new keys. I have tried to divide it in multiple notes, but that divides the sample, and makes it incoherent. It doesn't sound natural.
I've also tried to use volume automation, but that only alters the volume, not the intensity of the timpani beats.
Is there a way to solve this in Waveform?

[Steve Bolivar]

I'm pretty sure there's no way to solve that in anything. The problem is the roll is the sample and that limits what to can do with it.

Maybe if you added some kind of increasing exciter effect or eq boost that coincides with the volume automation that might get the increase in intensity you're looking for.

[lydentusiast]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I was hoping that there was a solution to this issue. Maybe in the future...

[Peter Widdicombe]

The tympani ROLL - do you send a single note to activate it, or do you send a series of notes for each hit of the tympani? Individual notes you can alter the velocity of, but velocity is a note-on parameter and for those that offer it, a note-off velocity. PRESSURE on the other hand is a continuous controller, so if the Kontact supports pressure, you might be able to use that ?

Great case for the use of continuous controllers...

[jabe]

You could render the sample to audio. That could help, but I've no idea what effect you could apply to increase intensity, whatever that is.

[HansP]

....
Is there a way to solve this in Waveform?

I believe it can only be solved with a more detailed sample library, and orchestral expression in a natural way actually is the limit of artificial music.
You want the real thing, you pay the real orchestra.

But for a demo or entertainment background, it might be sufficient to automate a saturation plugin step-wise, and open up some EQ hi-shelf, additionally to a soft volume increase.
The trick might be, that you initially decrease higher frequencies from a roll sample that was played forte. This might appear as if it was played piano or mezzoforte. So you have room for opening up, and it ends up with a natural tone character.
Different EQ type to try, e.g. one that has a mix knob or allows parallel wiring without phase issues, and then you can use a 24dB/oct lowpass or a moog cascade opening up (no full swing! rather like from 600Hz to 1k5 and mixed slightly into the direct sound), it can make a drum roll really "talk".

Currently, they sell a "noveltech character" plugin at halloween price, it might help to create a fake velocity boost, when you automate the main knob. Demoing perhaps worth a try.

[Rock]

If it is a single strike there will be one velocity. Try another control. My first attempt would be the mod wheel.

[eagle-patriot]

Sounds like the kind of effect one might get with aftertouch, but I haven't messed with that since I had my Ensoniq SQ-80 way-back. Is that still a thing? Some interesting ideas above, but hard to know what to suggest without knowing your source. From your description, it sounds like you have multiple velocity-sensitive samples that play back. Unless you can generate the effect you desire right from the keyboard's modulation (and hence, any modulation source you want in Waveform), you're probably in need of some creative thinking. Maybe you can render the various velocity samples from the device and loop/crossfade between them to get the desired effect?

[Stuttaton]

You really want separate beats, since soft beats sound different that hard ones. Otherwise, you could use midi volume and draw a curve for the controller.

[Peter Widdicombe]

If you can find a good tympani hit, then:
- Create a clip; that VST output. For my test, I used the Collective Orchestral percussion. Interestingly, it was C2; but in the midi editor it played as C3.
- Place individual notes at the appropriate interval. Trial and error.
- open up the velicity pane. Select all the velocities.
- in "tools" select the line tool and draw an incrementing line. Not sure how to do it if you want a curve with non-linear crescendo at the end, other than having multiple segments, but easy enough to do.
- Volila ! A tympani crescendo !

Not sure if we have an easy way to drop audio clips in here directly?

[koalaboy]

You could create multiple tracks at different velocities, and then crossfade between them (and maybe render down the result to a new sample) ?