The Wagtunes Corner (Featuring My Best Yet)

[wagtunes]

I'm not convinced time is a factor.

Time IS always a factor (without defining 'how long'). If you set a limited time frame, you will only be able to do what fits into that time frame. If you get to the end of that time frame, your track is not magically getting good, if it wasn't that already somewhat just before. To make something sound great, you simply need to put in the time it need to actually do make it great.

If you get to a point where you say 'f*ck it, this is it', then you are basically giving up. You also won't grow beyond that threshold that you create for yourself.

My last track is the first one I did record and produce in my new studio. I worked on and off for about 4 months on this one track. It took that long because I wanted to sound certain parts in specific ways and I basically had to learn how to get to those sounds. So it took a whole lot of time, but I also learned a boatload of stuff during those months that will benefit my future tracks.

The way I see it you should never stop to try to grow

I leave it at that and I'm out of here. Wags, have a nice live

Here's the problem and I'll relate it to a story that happened to me when I was looking for a job. Prospective employer asked me how much experience I had. I told him 10 years. He asked me what I did. I told him. He said to me, "Well, what you have is one year of experience 10 times."

No amount of time that I put into a track of music is going to suddenly bring me to a new level if I don't actually LEARN something new. And I'm not going to learn something new working on my own. For that to happen, I need to go to a studio or to some environment where I am working with people who can actually TEACH me things and get me to do things that I wouldn't have thought of doing on my own. Right now, all I'd be doing is randomly and arbitrarily turn knobs and sliders until I MAYBE hit on something. Doing things in that manner, it could take forever to get something beyond where I am IF it ever happened at all.

The only time I ever got better at something was when I actually learned something. That happened by going to Youtube and watching videos. Well, I am now at a point where I don't know what other videos to watch. I don't know what to do next to go to the next level. I need someone to show me. Until that happens, spending 1 week or 1 year on a song is going to get me the same results, if not worse out of sheer boredom working on the same track for umpteen thousand hours.

No thanks.

[wagtunes]

10th track from my upcoming CD "In The Blink Of An Eye"

This would probably be the equivalent of Kiss doing Beth. It's not punk but I felt it fit in with this CD.

Okay, some notes:

It's about 20 tracks. Only 1 was quantized and that was the drums. Everything else was played in real time and left as is. In many cases I had to play parts numerous times to get them right without quantizing. To that end, I kept things relatively simple because my playing skills are average at best. But more on that later.

I kept the song short as well because the less there is to play, the better. So it's only a little over 2 and a half minutes.

Now, after putting this whole thing together, quite honestly, I don't really hear a big difference between this track and the ones that I quantize. I do, however, sense a kind of flow that isn't normally there. I can't quite describe it. It's maybe a little smoother. But then a lot of that may have to do with the fact that the guitar part was finger picked as virtual guitar chords just sound flat out awful. Even I have to admit that. Shame they can't make a guitar VST where the strumming sounds realistic. So far, they have not. So the finger picking definitely helped. And with close to 20 tracks in this song, none but drums quantized, there's more of an orchestral like flow. Again, can't quite describe it but hopefully, you'll hear what I'm talking about.

Having said all this, no way can I do this on tracks that are difficult to play. My skills won't allow it. So those tracks are going to have to be quantized. At least the parts that I physically can't play. This limits the number of songs that I'm able to do in this manner. At least until I get better at playing.

All in all, it was an interesting experience. Going back to recording the way I used to, when it was all recorded to tape, was fun, kind of. I was surprised at how much better I have become at playing live. Not that I'm so great. But there is definitely an improvement. I am actually looking forward to doing more tracks without quantization in the future but again, only if I'm physically capable of playing them. These 179 BPM Blink tracks that I've done with the chugging guitars? No way. They literally had to be programmed into the piano roll. I cannot play virtual guitars that fast. And if I try to slow it down in order to play it, the feel is all wrong and the performance is just totally disjointed.

One final thing. In an above post, I talked about how you only get better by learning new things and not doing the same thing over and over. Well, today I learned something new. It was a small thing but it's going to help me immensely in the future. I learned how to use FPS timecode. Why does that matter? Well, I tried editing a small part of a vocal but couldn't make the cut using the beats and bars setting. So out of desperation, I switched to FPS and I was able to move the cursor to any place on the timeline that I wanted. Now I know how to take multiple vocal performances, chop them up into bits and pieces and combine the best parts of each one to make the best possible performance. Now, what I'll probably do for all my vocal tracks is maybe do 4 or 5 different takes and combine the best parts of each one into the final vocal. This will make my vocals even better than they are now.

Anyway, here it is. Please be honest. If it sounds like crap, tell me. If I'm better off quantizing, even if it sounds robotic, I need to know.

When The Last Bell Tolls

Are you ready for the end
Are you ready to make peace with the world now
Are you searching for a friend
Are you waiting for somebody to show you how
Nothing can prepare you for
When you walk through that final door
And no one's gonna see you no more
When the last bell tolls

Did your life go as you planned
Did you do the things you wanted to do now
Are you running from the damned
Are you waiting for somebody to show you how
Nothing can prepare you for
When you walk through that final door
And no one's gonna see you no more
When the last bell tolls

Maybe in the next life
You can get it all right
As you drift into the night

Time to say your last goodbyes
Time to pack up all your cares in a tote bag
Time to have a last good cry
Knowing that this life was all just a big gag
Nothing can prepare you for
When you walk through that final door
And no one's gonna see you no more
When the last bell tolls

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... bell-tolls

[wagtunes]

Another one (this from my side project) without quantization. I'd really appreciate some feedback on these last two tracks to know if I'm on the right track. Is my playing decent enough not to quantize or am I better off going back to quantizing everything? Thanks.

Law Of The Land

Time to place your bet
Wheel of fortune spins
Play without regret
Only daring wins

Must be in the game
To ever have a chance
Don't reveal your name
When you do the dance

No one knows where chips will fall
Let 'em ride per chance to win them all

Time to take your stand
Time to join the band
Take fate by the hand
It's the law of the land

All those years before
Never caught a break
Always wanted more
Prayed for heaven's sake

Opportunity
It finally came your way
Nothing left to see
This is your big day

Repeat Pre Chorus and Chorus

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim/law-of-the-land

[aaron aardvark]

wagtunes,
Thank you for reviewing 2 of my songs! Now your music: 'When The Last Bell Tolls': in my honest opinion, I think you are better off quantizing, judging from this one song. I wouldn't say there are serious timing issues, it is just that the timing could be a bit tighter. Most of my songs use toontrack drums: I mostly use MIDI drum patterns played by session drummers (which toontrack provides), so they have human feel, but usually not sloppy timing. True confessions: sometimes I use Melodyne Assistant (it only handles monophonic material, as opposed to the more expensive Editor) to time correct my electric bass playing; though sometimes it makes the timing sound worse, so it's not a sure thing. I don't think I've ever used timing correction using Melodyne on my vocals, and liking the results; I think I tried that a few times and gave up. I like the guitar riff in the song, which I think is the strongest part of the song, its melody. You spoiled me with the last song I reviewed (if my memory serves me), where your vocals were unusually good; they're not as good in this song. I like the vocal melody on the chorus better than the verse. But every song can't be the best you've ever done, unless you get significantly better with every song, but that seems unlikely if you've recorded a lot of original songs. At certain times I felt this song would be appropriate for a musical play or rock opera. The lyrics are good. Keep at it!

[aaron aardvark]

wagtunes,
"Law of the Land": once again I think you are better off quantizing. Timing could be a little tighter. I might have mentioned earlier when having synth/piano parts, or drum patterns I've created, sometimes I will have the timing with slight intentional timing imperfections so they don't sound too robotic. On some of my synth songs, I purposely go for a robot precise timing on the synths, sometimes on synthetic (non-acoustic sample) drums. Depends on the song. Your mostly single-note piano riff sounds like something I'd come up with (don't worry, I'm not implying you've borrowed any melodies from me). Overall, I like the melodies and singing better on this song compared to 'Last Bell'. I like it.

[Mushy Mushy]

I have to say Wags must be feeling like ->

No quantize = you really should quantize
Quantize = needs less quantize

I think it’s clear by now there is no correct answer.

[wagtunes]

I have to say Wags must be feeling like ->

No quantize = you really should quantize
Quantize = needs less quantize

I think it’s clear by now there is no correct answer.

Actually, no, I don't feel like banging my head against the wall but Aaron confirmed what I was truly feeling, that there was something just not right about the non quantized songs. So I'm done trying to get a playing in real time feel. If people don't like my quantizing, tough. The songs ultimately sound better, which is why I started quantizing in the first place.

I don't think I'll go back and redo these last two tracks with quantize. It's just too much work. I'll just chalk it up to being a failed experiment and move on from here.

The next person who tells me I should stop quantizing, I'm just going to ignore. Fortunately, I don't think the last 2 songs are horrible. As Aaron said, there are no serious timing issues but something is just off. So I'm done.

[wagtunes]

wagtunes,
Thank you for reviewing 2 of my songs! Now your music: 'When The Last Bell Tolls': in my honest opinion, I think you are better off quantizing, judging from this one song. I wouldn't say there are serious timing issues, it is just that the timing could be a bit tighter. Most of my songs use toontrack drums: I mostly use MIDI drum patterns played by session drummers (which toontrack provides), so they have human feel, but usually not sloppy timing. True confessions: sometimes I use Melodyne Assistant (it only handles monophonic material, as opposed to the more expensive Editor) to time correct my electric bass playing; though sometimes it makes the timing sound worse, so it's not a sure thing. I don't think I've ever used timing correction using Melodyne on my vocals, and liking the results; I think I tried that a few times and gave up. I like the guitar riff in the song, which I think is the strongest part of the song, its melody. You spoiled me with the last song I reviewed (if my memory serves me), where your vocals were unusually good; they're not as good in this song. I like the vocal melody on the chorus better than the verse. But every song can't be the best you've ever done, unless you get significantly better with every song, but that seems unlikely if you've recorded a lot of original songs. At certain times I felt this song would be appropriate for a musical play or rock opera. The lyrics are good. Keep at it!

Aaron, thank you for your honest feedback on both songs. You only confirmed what I was feeling. I will go back to quantizing and let the chips fall where they may.

Thank you again, as always, for your support. I really, really appreciate it.

[vurt]

you tried it and felt it didn't work. that's fine, no one can say you dont try things

in the end, as ive always said, you need to be happy with it, and beyond that, it's great if others enjoy it as is, but as "artists" we sometimes cant help offering advice, but it's all just personal preference in the end
it's not a right or wrong answer situation

you be you! (although im still happy you took over from vocaloid)

[wagtunes]

you tried it and felt it didn't work. that's fine, no one can say you dont try things

in the end, as ive always said, you need to be happy with it, and beyond that, it's great if others enjoy it as is, but as "artists" we sometimes cant help offering advice, but it's all just personal preference in the end
it's not a right or wrong answer situation

you be you! (although im still happy you took over from vocaloid)

Well, I always knew I wasn't a great performer and the chances of this ended up well were slim to none but I gave it a shot. If I didn't, people would have said I was being my usual stubborn self and I just didn't want to deal with that.

As for Vocaloid, it's not dead and buried. Not yet. There's more to come. Maybe sooner than either of us think.

[wagtunes]

11th track from my upcoming CD "In The Blink Of An Eye"

At 179 BPM, no way was I playing this live. So back to quantizing. Sounds much better.

Under The Dome

Locked up inside a cage
Going into a rage
There's no escape for me
Wishing to just be free

Feel like I'm in a zoo
Stuck in this hell with you
Somebody stop this show
Before crazy I do go
It's insane
In my brain
Losing it
Bit by bit
On this wild train

Living under the dome
This never was my home
These shiny streets I roam
Living under the dome

How did it get like this
Screwed up without a kiss
Watching the monsters come
Watching the children run

Repeat Pre Chorus and Chorus

Instrumental Break

Repeat Pre Chorus and Chorus

Outro

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim/under-the-dome

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

The next person who tells me I should stop quantizing, I'm just going to ignore.

You don't need to stop non-quantisation. You just need to practice playing in time with others (In this case, yourself).

[wagtunes]

The next person who tells me I should stop quantizing, I'm just going to ignore.

You don't need to stop non-quantisation. You just need to practice playing in time with others (In this case, yourself).

One, I thought you were done with me. Isn't that what you said the last time you were here? I mean I don't mind if you still want to have an interaction with me but I wish you'd make up your mind.

Two, what do you think I've been doing for 42 years? I've been multi tracking all my songs playing in time to my own playing since 1977. Some people just have a lousy sense of timing. Unfortunately, I am one of them. This is not a question of not practicing. This is simply a matter of my being lousy at it.

[vurt]

i have pretty iffy timing with real instruments too, it's why my guitar stuff is more fluid than rock n roll stuff.
i trip over myself if i try to count time and play
although i can get away with simple chord pattern strumming.

[vurt]

different kettle of fish obviously, easier for me to get away with it