My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

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lfm
KVRAF
5093 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:12 pm

tapper mike wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:18 pm
Here's a thing about metronomes. They sound..TICK, tock, TICK, tock. Worse still electronic ones always sound TICK, tock, tock, tock. Always emphasis on the one.

You really don't want a full ensemble when you are practicing alone. They tend to muffle your performance into the background.
Very true - get a multi pitch metronome - where even accent is different timbre of sound(bell glockenspiel or something).

Metronome make you listen to outside world - which is the same as playing with other people - but less crowded so you notice mistakes.

Something like Boss DB-90 or Korg Beatlab with a simple volume fader for each division you want to hear(any tuplet too, if you want that). DB-90 can sync to midi clock as well if to do more appropriate clicks when recording in daw. Worth the money many times over.

I think they both allow programming so you just step a program and you go 80 bpm, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140 or what you strive for. Doing 8th and 16th then, and start with quarter notes on the higher where your limit is.

And separate practising to metronome and maybe more musical soloing or so to ensemble or drum patterns. Usually there is too much going on for drums to be best for metronome purposes - this is for fun(important).

Pick and choose some passages of scales or arpeggios - and to metronome.
- go up in bpm after some minutes on each
- then go down again, I usually go 10 bpm steps either way

When I go down again - I really notice if I listened carefully to beat or not.
I do both 8th notes and 16th to again notice if I'm listening. And to make it harder triplets too. To get into the feel it sometimes helps raising volume on triplets on metronome, but then take it away again.

Troy Stetina - Speed mechanics for lead guitar - is something to pick ideas from. Some are for sync left and right hand - and others just fluency left hand(hammer on, pull offs, allowed).

Not to get schredder so much as to optimise pick movement - as I discovered. You really play layed back doing "normal" speed with no effort eventually.

A friend of mine, a drummer, said that it takes about four days for new synapses in brain to finalize what you do - what you learned sort of. And found this is very true - that not every day is optimal, give it a rest. And certainly not - anxious that you didn't practise one day - it could be for the better.

Training at gym clearly say - not same muscle groups every day. Give it a day in between. Not that you shouldn't play - just leave harder metronome exercises a rest.

Me trying to do progress ant steps on various instruments - guitar becomes maybe once a week. Play everyday - but serious metronome exercise.

stimresp
KVRian
1029 posts since 1 Jul, 2008

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:01 am

I've been in a similar boat to the OP. I found that using both a metronome and a looper pedal have helped a lot. Yes, it can be immensely frustrating, but the only cure is practice. Tapping a foot also helps.

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Hermetech Mastering
KVRian
1161 posts since 30 May, 2003 from Paris

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:27 am

Always play with a metronome or drum beat, always tap your foot on the beat, and just practise loads. Try Justin's RUST 1 and RUST 2 courses (Really Useful Strumming Techniques), I found them extremely helpful and they gave me loads of cool strumming patterns to practise. Also try his "The Disappearing Metronome" lesson. I've been doing it five minutes a day for over a year now and my strumming is getting really tight.

https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-les ... ick-te-403

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Forgotten
KVRAF
6254 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:57 am

Personally I would say always play with a metronome isn’t a good thing. It’s really good for disciplining your playing, but sometimes it’s good to play with a looser feel.

My piano teacher recommends a balance between metronome exercises and sight reading pieces without. In particular, there are musical directions that make it impossible to play with a metronome when they pertain to tempo changes.

mjudge55
KVRist
175 posts since 8 Sep, 2005 from Seattle

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:09 am

Forgotten wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:57 am
Personally I would say always play with a metronome isn’t a good thing. It’s really good for disciplining your playing, but sometimes it’s good to play with a looser feel.

My piano teacher recommends a balance between metronome exercises and sight reading pieces without. In particular, there are musical directions that make it impossible to play with a metronome when they pertain to tempo changes.
True that. But based on my field studies playing with hacks, and being one all my life, loose feel is in abundance and use of metronomes not.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15335 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am

It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55121 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!

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Forgotten
KVRAF
6254 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:26 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!
No wonder he hasn’t replied then - he’s now doing everything with his arms straight down by his side...

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55121 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:27 am

guitar is going to be hard, but impressive if he pulls it off.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15335 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:28 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyvzBGwD1vs

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55121 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:29 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:28 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyvzBGwD1vs
not quite sure what to say to that.

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15335 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:36 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:29 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:28 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyvzBGwD1vs
not quite sure what to say to that.
It's Stavros Effin' Flatley. No need to say anything. Just sit back and chuckle :hihi:

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55121 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:36 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:29 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:28 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyvzBGwD1vs
not quite sure what to say to that.
It's Stavros Effin' Flatley. No need to say anything. Just sit back and chuckle :hihi:
makes you wonder how michael is the famous brother? :shrug:

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15335 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:48 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:36 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:29 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:28 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:20 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am
It's been five days, and the op has yet to return to the thread. Not sure there's much hope for his timing :shrug:
hes getting lessons from flatley.
that's timing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyvzBGwD1vs
not quite sure what to say to that.
It's Stavros Effin' Flatley. No need to say anything. Just sit back and chuckle :hihi:
makes you wonder how michael is the famous brother? :shrug:
Less souvlaki and Ouzo. More dancing practice :tu:

tapper mike
KVRAF
5202 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:50 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:57 am
Personally I would say always play with a metronome isn’t a good thing. It’s really good for disciplining your playing, but sometimes it’s good to play with a looser feel.
Yeah, no, maybe.
If you are Bill Evans who throws rubato out the window displaces melody and each measure seems to have it's own bpm while retaining a seemless quality then maybe. After the Miles Davis years when he did nothing but solo piano his timing was surreal. The problem was no one could lock into Bills mind or sync up to play with him. As a consequence Evans would tell his bandmates do as you please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDy3MQni78

Nonetheless Evans influences everything I play (more on that later)
My piano teacher recommends a balance between metronome exercises and sight reading pieces without. In particular, there are musical directions that make it impossible to play with a metronome when they pertain to tempo changes.
Jazz and rock studies are different for me.
For my "fingerstyle" playing
I commit to learning a song I leave rhythm out of the mix and just focus on getting the notes down. I just want to transition smoothly as possible from one chord / note to the next. Then comes working at a slow tempo to get the nuance down. Finally I'll bring it up to tempo and try to add my nuance to it.

In Rock playing It's all about feeling the beat first and then getting the notes in.

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