My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

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Dasheesh
KVRAF
3670 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:00 pm

Thelonious Monk would never have made it. This is a direct result of letting computers play algorithms for you.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5909 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:02 pm

I think the rock thing comes from its blues roots. Some of the best blues players have the sloppiest playing.

Monk on the other hand was something else. It always sounded like he had no clue what he was going to play next until the very last second, and watching footage of him shows the same. His improvisational skills were like no one else.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3670 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:12 pm

music is human. human is flawed. we no longer express our selves because we are too worried about making a living. obeying the rules. doing what we are told. to the point we let the machines do it for us. then there is no music left.

been given great advice over the years, one of them is... learn every thing you can. learn to do it right... then throw it out the window. real knows real.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3670 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:18 pm


mystran
KVRAF
5491 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:10 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:57 am
My piano teacher recommends a balance between metronome exercises and sight reading pieces without. In particular, there are musical directions that make it impossible to play with a metronome when they pertain to tempo changes.
First all I agree that always playing with a metronome is probably not ideal, unless you're practicing to play with machines. That said, while you can't really change the overall tempo while playing with a metronome, it does not prevent you from having a groove where you intentionally lead or lag some notes (or even phrases). In fact, I find that playing with a metronome (or a straight quantised drum machine beat, which is really the same but sometimes easier to listen) is actually helpful in learning to be more deliberate with your groove, because you can't use "loose timing" as an excuse to drift with the overall timing (ie. "loose" timing and "poor" timing are really two different things).
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Forgotten
KVRAF
5909 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:44 pm

I wasn't talking about groove really, as I think you can learn to groove or swing with a metronome, as you're really only using it to hit the start of each bar on time. I was thinking of instructions like "accelerando", "ritardando", "ritenuto", etc. - you can't really use a metronome in a piece that has that kind of tempo instruction.

tapper mike
KVRAF
5188 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:21 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:02 pm
I think the rock thing comes from its blues roots. Some of the best blues players have the sloppiest playing.

Rock is about the beat. There are two foundation rhythms that define the rock era. Swing and Straight. Straight 8's weren't exactly straight not because of lack or metronomes but do to the mechanics of performing.
Humans aren't robots we are organic in nature which means we don't have mechanical motion. As much as we might try to be a windshield washer we will always have some easing at the point of changing motion from down to up and vice versa. That, the elasticity of the strings and or pick affect the attack time of any given note. Even if you take out the human and put a robot mechanism like a windshield washer you are still working with the dynamics of a mechanical world which is quite different than a computer environment.

Straight Eights played properly by humans will always have a "bouncy" nature. Moreso than mechanical approaches (such as player piano or mechanical drums. Again, it's important to stress that country/ rockabilly players also influenced 60's rock acts as much as blues players did even if it's not that apparent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAbup6giLZk

tapper mike
KVRAF
5188 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:22 pm

With regards to Eric Clapton and more importantly and possibly more influential Keith Richards.

With Blues Rock the phrasing came from blues players that came before. Blues players were often less concerned with the break down of where in the beat it happened as they were with how it was expressed vocally. Saying the phrase in the accent as a rhythmic function.

Read the last paragraph like these two
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If you want your guitar to cry or sing first you need to give it a voice. Sure you still have to learn timing and accents the old fashion way. But after that you have to give into or act out the part rather than just go through the motion of the notes in the right order.
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lfm
KVRAF
5087 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:56 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:57 am
Personally I would say always play with a metronome isn’t a good thing. It’s really good for disciplining your playing, but sometimes it’s good to play with a looser feel.

My piano teacher recommends a balance between metronome exercises and sight reading pieces without. In particular, there are musical directions that make it impossible to play with a metronome when they pertain to tempo changes.
The metronome part is about syncing mind to action of lims - it's not about being robotic.

What drummers spend endless hours on is doing this - two feet and two hands to be in sync what brain tells it to do and more importantly when - on the millisecond.

So about other instruments - when your "feel" says to play a note - then you get it when you want it.

And you play with other musicians - so that is what you train your brain to do - listen while playing.

This is the core of metronome practice and reason for doing it and also why it's a separate part from doing musical playing.

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mumpcake
KVRian
1119 posts since 27 Aug, 2004

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:48 pm

Why does that guy have a couple of C-clamps on his guitar?
Even if the piano player can't play, keep the party going.
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The Noodlist
KVRian
1296 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:38 am

mumpcake wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:48 pm
Why does that guy have a couple of C-clamps on his guitar?
I think they decrypt the code and send it to the fingers.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

anttimaatteri
KVRist
308 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:28 am

dont believe the hype. generation beat, pitch and groove correction. pianoroll zombies. other than that, do as the better ones here mentioned. practice like hell, with the right metronome setting though ^^.
or listen to purdie. ^^

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The Noodlist
KVRian
1296 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:52 am

Woodshedding
Muscle memory, practice often, starting slowly and accurately to a fixed beat, as above^. Gradually increase tempo, using bursts could also be helpful. Foot tapping for internal rhythm.
I need to do some regular practise, let things slip a long time ago.
Last edited by The Noodlist on Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

Etienne1973
KVRian
547 posts since 8 Feb, 2013 from Switzerland

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:19 am

anttimaatteri wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:28 am
... or listen to purdie. ^^
Bernard "Pretty" Purdie: The Legendary Purdie Shuffle

Nonetheless his a great time keeper beside all the grooving. It must be his inner metronome after all.

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excuse me please
KVRist
289 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:36 am

Hmm.. now I am ready to produce after 6 six of struggling, I don't know what to produce. However, I suppose my tracks will be catchy tunes accompanied, how to speel this word.. wow got that right, by artistic noodling.

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