Uhbik 2.0 public alpha rev. 9313

[medienhexer]

Can someone replicate this issue in Logic Pro 10.4.7:

- Create Drummer Track (Rock/Kyle)
- Load Uhbik-G in the channel
- load the 'gliss' preset
- Slowly turn SEMI to -0.80 (careful, it will create a *very* loud sound even with the CLIPper engaged... in my case, it clips at +6 dB in the channel).

A good 10 or so seconds into the noise fest, the signal cuts out and then the plug-in stops processing audio completely. The Input meter still shows the signal, but no processing, no waveform.

Processing doesn't return even when switching presets. Switching presets produces a 'pop' noise, though.

The only way of getting it back is to switch between PhaseVoc and Granular.

[exmatproton]

yeah...the clipper isn't stopping sounds at 0db. Should it?

[tasmaniandevil]

Can someone replicate this issue in Logic Pro 10.4.7:

Yes, can reproduce it, very good find.
We had actually fixed a similar issue in granular mode shortly before releasing the alpha.
I guess it's kind of a similar problem in phase voc mode.

[tasmaniandevil]

yeah...the clipper isn't stopping sounds at 0db. Should it?

Clipper currently acts linear up to 0dB, and then gradually clips the signal until +6dBFS.
But we'd love to get some feedback about this.

[medienhexer]

Can someone replicate this issue in Logic Pro 10.4.7:

Yes, can reproduce it, very good find.
We had actually fixed a similar issue in granular mode shortly before releasing the alpha.
I guess it's kind of a similar problem in phase voc mode.

Awesome. I tend to find this kind of issue while browsing presets. So glad it’s not just happening here.

[medienhexer]

yeah...the clipper isn't stopping sounds at 0db. Should it?

Clipper currently acts linear up to 0dB, and then gradually clips the signal until +6dBFS.
But we'd love to get some feedback about this.

I would think that most users will instantiate an Uhbik without lowering the channel or master faders. So the +6dB will clip the Master and in many cases the converters, won’t it? In many cases, that’s a huge jump in loudness from the volume you were working at before plus digital distortion.

Plus, the clipping D/A converters may clip the input on active speakers and on speakers with digital crossovers, the A/D converters, too.

So my vote is for brickwalling at -0.5 dB, maybe even -1?

[dangayle]

Oh my, this is great. Love the new interfaces! Wish the names were less cryptic though. Never liked that I had to guess/remember what each letter stood for. I am so close to having a U-he-only setup. A distortion/saturator/overdrive, and that drum machine would do it.

[dangayle]

UI bug: In Ableton Live 10.1.5 on macOS 10.14.6, none of the Uhbiks remember the UI size (120%) that I set.

Nevermind, I am an idiot. Forgot that I need to set that in the settings.

[dangayle]

Faux wood, a nice tradition.

Going on the list! List of plugins with faux wood

[exmatproton]

yeah...the clipper isn't stopping sounds at 0db. Should it?

Clipper currently acts linear up to 0dB, and then gradually clips the signal until +6dBFS.
But we'd love to get some feedback about this.

I would like to see it brickwalling sounds @ -0.1 dB

[Urs]

yeah...the clipper isn't stopping sounds at 0db. Should it?

Clipper currently acts linear up to 0dB, and then gradually clips the signal until +6dBFS.
But we'd love to get some feedback about this.

I would like to see it brickwalling sounds @ -0.1 dB

It's not common for effects plug-ins to clip or limit the signal at all. If we start clipping (or limiting) below 0dB, many people might experience clipping artefacts when they reopen old projects. That would be a no go.

I'm fairly sure that there are many people who gain stage plug-ins, using the virtually unlimited headroom of floating point processing.

The reason we wish to clip/limit at all is because some modulations and some extreme settings can go wild and some DAWs have automatic muting. Of course we'll try to weed out issues with presets and we'll try to make critical modulations more gentle.

We can certainly discuss options though, maybe something for the preferences.

I still would like the default behaviour to be absolutely transparent (no clipping, no soft clipping, no limiting) for signals below 0dB. Anything above that I'd love to handle "gracefully", i.e. limit moderately, soft clip overshoots.

Maybe the key isn't an on/off switch but maybe a switch that moves the operation range in and out of the 0dB threshold.

More thoughts?

[sinkmusic]

I still would like the default behaviour to be absolutely transparent (no clipping, no soft clipping, no limiting) for signals below 0dB. Anything above that I'd love to handle "gracefully", i.e. limit moderately, soft clip overshoots.

+1

- I like the idea of "handling gracefully" the signal when it starts getting too hot.
- I don't really need a brickwall limiter after each plugin, because i already have one at the end of my chain, on the master buss (and, as Urs wrote, working at 24/48 allows for tons of headroom, so internal clipping is not an issue).
- BUT one important thing is to know the way your plugin works : if i see "clipper" or "limiter" written on the plugin's GUI, i will expect it to stop any signal going above 0dB, just because it is the way any other plugin work (or what most people think). So, if Uhbiks do behave in a specific way (which is fine), it should be very explicit, and not misleading. Maybe finding another name, or writing it in bold in the user manual, or having the text displayed in orange when reaching 0dB and in red when going over 0dB would help the user knowing better what is actually going on ?

[EvilDragon]

That'd be much clearer to the end user, yes?

[exmatproton]

That'd be much clearer to the end user, yes?

yes. i agree. If the task is it to be a soft clipper.

[exmatproton]

yeah...the clipper isn't stopping sounds at 0db. Should it?

Clipper currently acts linear up to 0dB, and then gradually clips the signal until +6dBFS.
But we'd love to get some feedback about this.

I would like to see it brickwalling sounds @ -0.1 dB

It's not common for effects plug-ins to clip or limit the signal at all. If we start clipping (or limiting) below 0dB, many people might experience clipping artefacts when they reopen old projects. That would be a no go.

I'm fairly sure that there are many people who gain stage plug-ins, using the virtually unlimited headroom of floating point processing.

The reason we wish to clip/limit at all is because some modulations and some extreme settings can go wild and some DAWs have automatic muting. Of course we'll try to weed out issues with presets and we'll try to make critical modulations more gentle.

We can certainly discuss options though, maybe something for the preferences.

I still would like the default behaviour to be absolutely transparent (no clipping, no soft clipping, no limiting) for signals below 0dB. Anything above that I'd love to handle "gracefully", i.e. limit moderately, soft clip overshoots.

Maybe the key isn't an on/off switch but maybe a switch that moves the operation range in and out of the 0dB threshold.

More thoughts?

Well, lots of plugins i have/use, have an output clipper @0dB. Not saying that UHBIK should do that too ofcourse.
But if i see a 'clip' button, i immediately think of a brickwall limiter/clipper @0dB.

Especially with the flanger and granulizer, i would clip/brickwall the output, because i use them at extreme settings often. But, i can use a second plugin for that ofcourse. I do love to really hit my master chain, so my busses are quite hot, but i try to limit stuff between -3 and 3 dB on the channels.