I have a beatstep pro, which I'm trying to record into Tracktion 7. It's not the most cooperative set up but it's working ok, with one problem - I can't figure out how to trigger the sequencer and start recording at the same time.
Currently I'm hitting record on Tracktion with a count in and hitting the play button on the beatstep at the right time, but I obviously can't get it bang on and so I'm having to quantise the notes afterwards to get them on beat. Not an impossible task but a pain to do every time. I could set an automatic input quantisation but that carries the risk that something will quantise to the wrong beat.
Ideally I'd want Tracktion to start recording when it detects the midi input from the beatstep (I used to use Cakewalk and there was an option to do that) but I can't find an option for that, nothing in the manual either.
Alternatively, Tracktion could start the beatstep sequencer when I hit record but I can't work that out either.
Am I missing something? This seems like such an easy problem to solve eg by having Tracktion listen for incoming and start recording and I can't imagine that everyone using Tracktion with an external sequencer is manually quantising the midi notes all the time. But I'm stumped, despite spending ages googling the problem.
This has been hugely getting on my tits for weeks so would massively appreciate any guidance!
Question about recording external sequencer (Beatstep Pro) into Tracktion 7
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- KVRer
- 4 posts since 24 Nov, 2019
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
Beatstep pro sends MMC and midi messages when you press it's transport buttons, right?
So you maybe want to set it up as a controller in Waveform, and use the record button on the beatstep pro, to trigger waveform to start recording
I've not got a beatstep controller, to try that, but have a look under Settings, Control Surfaces, Create New Control Surface, then Edit Control Mappings, and see if you can get anywhere there, is what I'd do. I'd try to add mappings for the play, stop and record buttons, on the Beatstep Pro, to those functions in Waveform.
So you maybe want to set it up as a controller in Waveform, and use the record button on the beatstep pro, to trigger waveform to start recording
I've not got a beatstep controller, to try that, but have a look under Settings, Control Surfaces, Create New Control Surface, then Edit Control Mappings, and see if you can get anywhere there, is what I'd do. I'd try to add mappings for the play, stop and record buttons, on the Beatstep Pro, to those functions in Waveform.
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
I've just had a crack at this with my MPK mini, and the pads on that. Mapped one to play, another to record, another to stop, as a new control surface, and it works like described. You'd want to mute any patterns you've got in the beatstep pro just while you're mapping the transport buttons, or weird things will happen, as you'll send those patterns as midi to Waveform, while you're trying to map the buttons to play and stop functions.
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 24 Nov, 2019
Hey, thanks so much for the guidance, and sorry for the slow reply - have only just been able to look at this again.
I've had a crack at what you suggested and it works! I can map play to the play button in Tracktion, just like you said, so I can now trigger the sequencer and record at the same time, stop as well. Fantastic. The steps are still off beat a little bit but I suspect that this is because of another issue.
When I record at all now (either through pressing record on the beatstep or through the Tracktion itself) the cursor jumps backwards about one eighth of a bar. This didn't happen before, I'm sure, and it's borking everything because everything is off by a small amount.
I've just done a completely clean install, deleted all of my settings and the issue is still happening. This is so weird but I've playing with it for nearly two hours and I can't fix it - it's rendering tracktion useful for me, which is a crying shame because I love it otherwise. God, I hope I don't have to go back to Reaper...
EDIT: I've tried the demo of Waveform and, while not exactly the same issue occurs, a similar one does. When I first start recording, the cursor jumps back behind beat one, misses the first note and then all of the others are off. So I suspect it's the beatstep, rather than tracktion.
One thing I should say is that I'm using the Beatstop as the clock source. Tracktion is using it as the midi timecode input device. I can't do it other way around because I can't start the sequencer using Tracktion. Is it possible that this is the problem? I've tried playing around with the note timing and timecode offset and it seems that the notes are about 500 milliseconds out (I think, there's no indication of time) and so it could be this that is essentially lopping off the first note because the note arrives before tracktion starts recording?
I've had a crack at what you suggested and it works! I can map play to the play button in Tracktion, just like you said, so I can now trigger the sequencer and record at the same time, stop as well. Fantastic. The steps are still off beat a little bit but I suspect that this is because of another issue.
When I record at all now (either through pressing record on the beatstep or through the Tracktion itself) the cursor jumps backwards about one eighth of a bar. This didn't happen before, I'm sure, and it's borking everything because everything is off by a small amount.
I've just done a completely clean install, deleted all of my settings and the issue is still happening. This is so weird but I've playing with it for nearly two hours and I can't fix it - it's rendering tracktion useful for me, which is a crying shame because I love it otherwise. God, I hope I don't have to go back to Reaper...
EDIT: I've tried the demo of Waveform and, while not exactly the same issue occurs, a similar one does. When I first start recording, the cursor jumps back behind beat one, misses the first note and then all of the others are off. So I suspect it's the beatstep, rather than tracktion.
One thing I should say is that I'm using the Beatstop as the clock source. Tracktion is using it as the midi timecode input device. I can't do it other way around because I can't start the sequencer using Tracktion. Is it possible that this is the problem? I've tried playing around with the note timing and timecode offset and it seems that the notes are about 500 milliseconds out (I think, there's no indication of time) and so it could be this that is essentially lopping off the first note because the note arrives before tracktion starts recording?
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
I'm not sure if this is there in Tracktion 7, maybe not in the same place, but in Waveform 10 in the menu down in the bottom left, there's a button for "Timecode" and under there you can set things like the Midi timecode input device, but also "Change timecode offset". If you set a value in there, either positive or negative 500milliseconds, does that help?
Maybe also check under the Click Track menu that you have Pre-Record count in length set to "No count in", see if that makes any difference. If that's set to 1 bar, then the behaviour on the timeline when you hit record is for the cursor to jump back a bar from where you are, while it counts in that length before starting to record.
Maybe also check under the Click Track menu that you have Pre-Record count in length set to "No count in", see if that makes any difference. If that's set to 1 bar, then the behaviour on the timeline when you hit record is for the cursor to jump back a bar from where you are, while it counts in that length before starting to record.
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 24 Nov, 2019
Hey, thanks again for the reply. I tried the time code and the input delay but, while they do move the note timing, this seems to produce very inconsistent results and doesn't solve the issue - it still jumps the cursor backwards when I hit record even at max offset on both. And it doesn't help that there's no indication of units for the offset - I don't know if I'm changing minutes or microseconds and because of the inconsistency in the change it prompts, I can't change it and see the results.
That said, while I can't be 100% sure but I think it does change the amount it jumps back but only by a small amount that differs every time.
I checked the count in but its switched off, and the jump back is only 1/8 of a bar or so.
Because this was irritating me so much, I downloaded the demo of Waveform 10 and the problem still occurs, although with a slight variation - the jump back only happens at the beginning of the track. If I stop recording and then start again, it doesn't jump. So I may be able to work around this by starting and stopping recording, lining the cursor up on bar 2 and hitting record. Will need to try this tonight.
I've done a lot of forum reading around and I'm pretty much convinced now that this is because Tracktion can't properly slave to external input - it doesn't respond to an external clock in any reliable way. I think that it's just not designed to work with external hardware in this way, only to play out to it, which would render the beatstep useless. And I can't see how to slave the beatstep to Tracktion - there doesn't appear to be a way to send a play signal to the beatstep by pressing record on Tracktion. Plus it's not like I want to have to record in Tracktion to be able to run the sequencer!
This all works fine on Cakewalk - I was able to slave cakewalk so that it listened for a clock input and started recording when it was received, so it must be a software issue, especially given how so many other people seem to have similar problems.
It's a crying shame because otherwise I love everything about Tracktion and pretty much loathe all the other DAWS I've ever used - can't handle the sheer complexity and unfriendliness of cakewalk and Reaper is just awful in every way. I may just have to accept that everything will be recorded off tempo and out of time and then just fix it afterwards. Such a pain...
Really appreciate the help though, being able to start recording from the sequencer was a massive step forward.
That said, while I can't be 100% sure but I think it does change the amount it jumps back but only by a small amount that differs every time.
I checked the count in but its switched off, and the jump back is only 1/8 of a bar or so.
Because this was irritating me so much, I downloaded the demo of Waveform 10 and the problem still occurs, although with a slight variation - the jump back only happens at the beginning of the track. If I stop recording and then start again, it doesn't jump. So I may be able to work around this by starting and stopping recording, lining the cursor up on bar 2 and hitting record. Will need to try this tonight.
I've done a lot of forum reading around and I'm pretty much convinced now that this is because Tracktion can't properly slave to external input - it doesn't respond to an external clock in any reliable way. I think that it's just not designed to work with external hardware in this way, only to play out to it, which would render the beatstep useless. And I can't see how to slave the beatstep to Tracktion - there doesn't appear to be a way to send a play signal to the beatstep by pressing record on Tracktion. Plus it's not like I want to have to record in Tracktion to be able to run the sequencer!
This all works fine on Cakewalk - I was able to slave cakewalk so that it listened for a clock input and started recording when it was received, so it must be a software issue, especially given how so many other people seem to have similar problems.
It's a crying shame because otherwise I love everything about Tracktion and pretty much loathe all the other DAWS I've ever used - can't handle the sheer complexity and unfriendliness of cakewalk and Reaper is just awful in every way. I may just have to accept that everything will be recorded off tempo and out of time and then just fix it afterwards. Such a pain...
Really appreciate the help though, being able to start recording from the sequencer was a massive step forward.
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
I'm not sure it this might help, or not, but you might want to experiment with the Midi Machine Control settings in the timecode menu, check what happens if you have just a midi input selected in the controller, and then respond to MMC from that (under the timecode button, Midi Timecode input device set to that), and if it's different if you *ALSO* have the "Send Midi machine control to device" set to the same device, as an output, and what happens if you just have "Send midi machine control to device" set with the Beatpro as the output, while having the "Respond to midi machine control from device" *NOT* set to the beatpro ...
My understanding (which may be wrong) is that MMC is all your Play, Forward, Stop, Record type commands, and you may not actually need to map those buttons, in the controller setup, because I *think* the beatpro sends them as a matter of course. So maybe mapping them is confusing things.
Alternatively, not responding to those messages may make manually mapping them behave more consistently. I'm thinking you may theoretically be getting two messages, the MMC and another, and they're both trying to kick off the play or record, and there's a delay.
If you set it so that send midi MMC to device is on, and respond to them is off, perhaps hitting record in Waveform will trigger the Beatpro to start in a more consistent way...? Maybe?
Beyond that, there's an option in settings, midi devices, that defaults to "Use MIDI driver for MIDI timing", try toggling that, see if it improves at all
This must be pretty frustrating, it feels like it's nearly there, but not quite
My understanding (which may be wrong) is that MMC is all your Play, Forward, Stop, Record type commands, and you may not actually need to map those buttons, in the controller setup, because I *think* the beatpro sends them as a matter of course. So maybe mapping them is confusing things.
Alternatively, not responding to those messages may make manually mapping them behave more consistently. I'm thinking you may theoretically be getting two messages, the MMC and another, and they're both trying to kick off the play or record, and there's a delay.
If you set it so that send midi MMC to device is on, and respond to them is off, perhaps hitting record in Waveform will trigger the Beatpro to start in a more consistent way...? Maybe?
Beyond that, there's an option in settings, midi devices, that defaults to "Use MIDI driver for MIDI timing", try toggling that, see if it improves at all
This must be pretty frustrating, it feels like it's nearly there, but not quite
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 24 Nov, 2019
>This must be pretty frustrating, it feels like it's nearly there, but not quite
That's exactly it, it feels so close!
>I'm thinking you may theoretically be getting two messages, the MMC and another, and they're both trying to kick off the play or record, and there's a delay
That's a super interesting point - if I recall correctly, there is a setting on the beatstep for this and I'm certain that it's set to send both MMC and MIDi. I'm pretty new to this (as you may have gathered...) and it didn't occur to me that could be an issue. But, as it's now set up, it's sending both. I can't check until tonight but that really could be it and that could be a really simple fix.
I'm going to try all these things tonight. Seriously, thanks so much again for your help.
That's exactly it, it feels so close!
>I'm thinking you may theoretically be getting two messages, the MMC and another, and they're both trying to kick off the play or record, and there's a delay
That's a super interesting point - if I recall correctly, there is a setting on the beatstep for this and I'm certain that it's set to send both MMC and MIDi. I'm pretty new to this (as you may have gathered...) and it didn't occur to me that could be an issue. But, as it's now set up, it's sending both. I can't check until tonight but that really could be it and that could be a really simple fix.
I'm going to try all these things tonight. Seriously, thanks so much again for your help.