The Wagtunes Corner

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JoeCat
KVRian
1390 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:54 pm

Listen to the some Flaming Lips tracks (Race for the Prize) - breaks a lot of rules (the drums sound like a giant kit recorded in my garage and panned to one side - but only for the chorus!). But it's considered a masterpiece. For production, context matters. Those drums (for example) on a Fleetwood Mac album sound like someone f'd up bad. ;)

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
13548 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:54 pm

Yeah it was delivered to the ME already clipping so there was little he could do with it. However another version was subsequently found and released as a video game version.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:05 pm

JoeCat wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:54 pm
Listen to the some Flaming Lips tracks (Race for the Prize) - breaks a lot of rules (the drums sound like a giant kit recorded in my garage and panned to one side - but only for the chorus!). But it's considered a masterpiece. For production, context matters. Those drums (for example) on a Fleetwood Mac album sound like someone f'd up bad. ;)
Ah, okay. So now we're getting somewhere. This isn't an absolute thing. It depends on what kind of sound you're going for. Like Lo-Fi Hip Hop records don't have the same fidelity as a dance track. But then they're not supposed to.

If that's the case, I'd not only have to post the track I'm doing but also post what my intentions were because in a vacuum, the mix by itself doesn't tell the whole story.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:08 pm

Having said that, are there any absolutes at all? Vocals being clearly heard. Would that be an absolute?

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JoeCat
KVRian
1390 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:17 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:08 pm
Having said that, are there any absolutes at all? Vocals being clearly heard. Would that be an absolute?
I feel like there are some, unless you're really going all-out experimental. One thing that's universal IMHO is filling out the frequency range. For example try scooping out to much of the low-mid to mids in a track, and it sounds thin even with bass - never good. Lack of bass, lack of highs etc. - Even The White Stripes, with no bass, filled in some of the low end.

I think the Lips would have caught some flack if they posted that track here lol. But it sounds "good" in it's way, even if it sounds "wrong". I guess it's hard to make sense of it but you know it because of context. You wouldn't direct a Marvel movie the same as a noir crime drama.

And yeah - if you're trying to produce a hit song in 2019, you might avoid a gated snare, but if you're going for an 80s vibe... That said, if a popular act uses something anachronistic like a gated snare they'd get away with it. But if they over-compressed, had muddy vocals (not the same as lo-fi), mix poorly to fill the frequency range, etc., it would probably be considered objectively bad production at least most of the time.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:27 pm

JoeCat wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:17 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:08 pm
Having said that, are there any absolutes at all? Vocals being clearly heard. Would that be an absolute?
I feel like there are some, unless you're really going all-out experimental. One thing that's universal IMHO is filling out the frequency range. For example try scooping out to much of the low-mid to mids in a track, and it sounds thin even with bass - never good. Lack of bass, lack of highs etc. - Even The White Stripes, with no bass, filled in some of the low end.

I think the Lips would have caught some flack if they posted that track here lol. But it sounds "good" in it's way, even if it sounds "wrong". I guess it's hard to make sense of it but you know it because of context. You wouldn't direct a Marvel movie the same as a noir crime drama.

And yeah - if you're trying to produce a hit song in 2019, you might avoid a gated snare, but if you're going for an 80s vibe... That said, if a popular act uses something anachronistic like a gated snare they'd get away with it. But if they over-compressed, had muddy vocals (not the same as lo-fi), mix poorly to fill the frequency range, etc., it would probably be considered objectively bad production at least most of the time.
Fascinating subject. Well, I don't think I can do anything with Ellie Goulding because I can't make heads or tails out of that production. I'll look for something else. But if I don't find anything in particular, I'll go for a genre, listen to a few tracks and then try to come close. Post the initial mix, which will be clearly labeled WIP, and get some feedback. And then, as feedback comes in, make changes, repost and get more feedback. Eventually, hopefully, the general consensus will be that the track is "finished."

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The Noodlist
KVRian
1479 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm

Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
Also, find someone to bounce ideas off and spur creativity.

I noticed that Ellie Goulding track started low and built up, then dropped in volume then up at the end. Automation mentioned earlier by DT.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25732 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm

The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
A Wagtunes remixed project perhaps? :band:

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm
The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
A Wagtunes remixed project perhaps? :band:
I would be all for that but who here would want to remix anything I did?

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:18 pm

The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
Also, find someone to bounce ideas off and spur creativity.

I noticed that Ellie Goulding track started low and built up, then dropped in volume then up at the end. Automation mentioned earlier by DT.
Yeah, that's something I don't do, dynamics. I start at one level and that's pretty much it. For that matter, there's a lot of things I don't do. Production wise, I think I have tunnel vision a lot of the time because I don't have the technical skills so I do what's safe.

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The Noodlist
KVRian
1479 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:24 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm
The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
A Wagtunes remixed project perhaps? :band:
I would be all for that but who here would want to remix anything I did?
Well, they might actually add, maybe add real guitars.
You're looking for change, you need to make some steps, if you fall down get back and up try again.
Last edited by The Noodlist on Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25732 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:33 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm
The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
A Wagtunes remixed project perhaps? :band:
I would be all for that but who here would want to remix anything I did?
If you never ask you'll never know. There is some great talent on this board ... holidays are almost here, season of good wiil and all that :D

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:34 pm

The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:24 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm
The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
A Wagtunes remixed project perhaps? :band:
I would be all for that but who here would want to remix anything I did?
Well they might actually add, maybe add real guitars.
You're looking for change, you need to make some steps, if you fall down get back and up try again.
Here's another thing. All my songs, for the most part, are piano or guitar based. I hear so many songs that have no piano and no guitar and yet have all this stuff going on filling out the sound and I have no idea what it is.

Can't reverse engineer something if you don't even know what they're using to get the sound they're getting. Again, bad ears don't help.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17965 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:37 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:33 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm
The Noodlist wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm
Why don't you offer some stems and midi for others to have a bash? It might yield some interesting results, an alternative rendition might be helpful.
A Wagtunes remixed project perhaps? :band:
I would be all for that but who here would want to remix anything I did?
If you never ask you'll never know. There is some great talent on this board ... holidays are almost here, season of good wiil and all that :D
Yes, there is a lot of great talent on this board. Have you heard the collaboration that Benedict is doing with another member? Excellent. And of course DT's stuff is amazing. Recursive's psy trance is excellent. I could go on and on.

I am in awe of a lot of people here. I'm sure they worked very hard to get to where they are. I'm sure they also have a hell of a lot of talent too.

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25732 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: The Wagtunes Corner

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:43 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:37 pm
I'm sure they worked very hard to get to where they are. I'm sure they also have a hell of a lot of talent too.
Somebody around here used to have a sig I really liked. It went ...

Hard Work. Talent & Guts!

:)

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