New MPE synths...

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Reckon104
KVRist
110 posts since 16 Jul, 2018

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:38 am

I find it to be really nice in a number of ways and easy to work with. However I am experiencing hanging note issues if I use the sustain pedal. And Bobdog, could you explain what you mean by "can only play the same note once?" The way I am understanding it, I don't seem to be able to replicate that problem.

BobDog
KVRian
794 posts since 2 Apr, 2015

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:53 am

Try this:

Play a c3 and hold, play another c3 and then release it.

Play a c3 and slide to g3 and hold, play a c3.


Can you replicate the sustain problem or is it random?

Reckon104
KVRist
110 posts since 16 Jul, 2018

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:16 am

Yes, I see your issue now. I seem to recall in a distant memory that issue coming up with some other software iteration at some point.

And I just opened up pigment again to test the sustain issue and it is not happening. Although I have no idea what it was, knowing me I'm imagining some kind of boneheaded user error.

Reckon104
KVRist
110 posts since 16 Jul, 2018

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:52 am

Actually check that. The sustain problem is still there for me.

For sake of argument, try the preset "granular air" in the brass section. Press the sustain pedal down. Now with left hand hit an octave (say c2 and c3). Then, keeping those pressed, run your right hand up from another c3 to d3 and back, release the notes and then the pedal. Here, c2 keeps going.

Reckon104
KVRist
110 posts since 16 Jul, 2018

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:11 am

Ok, sorry for this craziness, but now it is not happening again in a replicate-able fashion. I have no idea what's going on, but again I'm suspecting some kind of user error. Would love to know what it could be though :)

BobDog
KVRian
794 posts since 2 Apr, 2015

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:38 am

I will have a play with it tomorrow and see if I can replicate it...

As an aside Pigments has become my goto plugin for lots of sounds, it is easy to program but very powerful and to me it sounds good. The addition of MPE is icing on the cake.

When you look at it: it has the Matrixbrute modulation matrix with the addition of the three function generators and the three combinators, good oscillators, varied filters and a powerful FX section.

It's a very good synth.

BobDog
KVRian
794 posts since 2 Apr, 2015

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:41 am

Reckon104 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:16 am
Yes, I see your issue now. I seem to recall in a distant memory that issue coming up with some other software iteration at some point.
It seems to be common issue with synths converted to MPE, my Mordor NF1m suffers from the same problem.

Reckon104
KVRist
110 posts since 16 Jul, 2018

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:08 pm

BobDog wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:38 am
I will have a play with it tomorrow and see if I can replicate it...

As an aside Pigments has become my goto plugin for lots of sounds, it is easy to program but very powerful and to me it sounds good. The addition of MPE is icing on the cake.

When you look at it: it has the Matrixbrute modulation matrix with the addition of the three function generators and the three combinators, good oscillators, varied filters and a powerful FX section.

It's a very good synth.
Yeah, I have to agree. I wouldn't have considered it without mpe, but now, for me personally, this checks every box, particularly with the sampling/granular addition. It really is easy to work with and the randomization options are excellent.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7682 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:15 pm

BobDog wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:53 am
Try this:

Play a c3 and hold, play another c3 and then release it.

Play a c3 and slide to g3 and hold, play a c3.
I thought these two scenarios were an issue with any MPE instrument. At least I have not come across an MPE VST that can handle this in software I don't think. Are there any?
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Rimwolf
KVRist
72 posts since 15 Feb, 2012

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:15 pm
I thought these two scenarios were an issue with any MPE instrument. At least I have not come across an MPE VST that can handle this in software I don't think. Are there any?
Cypher2 and Equator both do the right thing. [Edit: Also Aalto and Kaivo.] And synths that aren't strictly MPE but do multi-channel MIDI (most of the U-He synths, most of the Logic/MainStage synths in MIDI Mono mode) also let you play unisons. The error, I surmise, is doing voice allocation by note number rather than by channel number, or else processing Note Off by note not channel.
Last edited by Rimwolf on Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

John the Savage
KVRist
395 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:12 pm

To be fair, in the grand scheme of things, there aren't many controllers that allow you to play two instances of the same note simultaneously. I mean, most synths are designed with standard keyboards in mind, expressivity notwithstanding...

Cheers!

Rimwolf
KVRist
72 posts since 15 Feb, 2012

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:21 pm

John the Savage wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:12 pm
To be fair, in the grand scheme of things, there aren't many controllers that allow you to play two instances of the same note simultaneously.
I've gotten to love playing unisons with finger vibrato on one or both pads. It's one of the great hidden features of LS.
I mean, most synths are designed with standard keyboards in mind, expressivity notwithstanding...
As a long-time wind-controllerist now LinnStrumentalist, I'm painfully aware of that! (It's been good for the budget, though :) )

BobDog
KVRian
794 posts since 2 Apr, 2015

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:16 am

Reckon104 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:11 am
Ok, sorry for this craziness, but now it is not happening again in a replicate-able fashion. I have no idea what's going on, but again I'm suspecting some kind of user error. Would love to know what it could be though :)
Ok, I can replicate it here by putting sustain on, randomly playing loads of notes and then turning sustain off. It is like Pigments plays a new note and holds it, you can hear the attack phase of the envelopes when you turn sustain off.

It's nothing to do with MPE, I can get it to do it in non ape single channel mode.

Looks like a bug managed to slip into version 2, I will report it...

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:17 am

Anyone been using Linnstrument with Icarus 2?

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7682 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: New MPE synths...

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:36 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:17 am
Anyone been using Linnstrument with Icarus 2?
Yup! In fact I helped test the MPE functionality during the beta phase and requested that Markus make the CC74 modulation bipolar, which it originally wasn't. So that's good for the linnstrument's relative Y modulation with default initial value of 64.
So now there are a few MPE modes:

"Force MPE" - This is your standard MPE mode, automatically makes +/- 48 note pitch bend, bi-polar timbre through assigning CC74 in the matrix. Linnstrument default Y behavior is good for this. Seaboard users should set Slide to Relative Bi-polar. Both of which send initial value of 64 which is the bi-polar mod zero point.

"Force MPE, CC74 routed to Macro" - Macro basically means the mod wheel. Same thing here. In this case incoming CC74 data gets converted to what's labeled as Modwhl/Macro in the matrix. The modulation range is from zero to full, initially unmodulated at 0 value, like a mod wheel would be (or as the macro knob on screen is), so you probably wouldn't want to use a bipolar mode for timbre where the initial value is 64, as is default for Linnstrument. It makes more sense in this case to switch linnstrument to initial relative Y value of 0, to use the patches as they were designed for mod wheel use. Otherwise you would get an initial highly modulated sound most likely. Or for Seaboard users, it's best to switch Slide mode to Relative Uni-polar (also sends initial value of 0). This mode actually has the benefit of being able to modulate either upwards or downwards for a positive modulation (like mod wheel going up no matter which direction you go). Might be a cool option to have in the linnstrument as well, though with the smaller initial strike zone, it's good to have the safety of unmodulated area downwards when the initial value is set to 0.

There's also an "MPE Auto-detect" mode but for me in Bitwig this doesn't seem to work, so I'm not sure where it's useful, can't speak to it.

But yeah overall, it's pretty fantastic! Nice to have the different options. And the type of sounds you get from Icarus are quite beautiful and fun to use with MPE. If you are expecting the monophonic sounds to work in MPE mode like Cypher and Equator do (or Surge or Bitwig instruments and some others), unfortunately it does not currently, due to expressions getting conflicted between notes that overlap, but he's looking at fixing that for an update. (And yes I know monophonic sounds are not MPE, but actually there are lots of benefits to tracking the expressions of different overlapping notes separately even when only one voice plays at a time, such as fast separate glides where the note bounces from one to the other but the expressions are maintained separately. And being able to use MPE note editing data per note rather than on unconnected midi lanes, and being able to switch tracks and use the same setup and not have to change your device settings... I could go on).
Last edited by Echoes in the Attic on Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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