MeldaProduction

Underoath77 · Post by **Underoath77** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:09 am

6 month check in! Any news???

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:57 am

Underoath77 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:09 am 6 month check in! Any news???

I guess it will be ready, when it is ready! Try to be more patient... I also would like to become a hybrid-human paired with A.I.

... but starting to poke A.I. developers wouldn`t help at all... quite the contrary.

spencerlee · Post by **spencerlee** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:36 am

I don't understand. Why do you want AI to do your job.
Spend years learning your craft like all us old Engineers and Producers have had to and stop using presets.
It just shows you have no talent.
Spencer

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:54 pm

spencerlee wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:36 am I don't understand. Why do you want AI to do your job.
Spend years learning your craft like all us old Engineers and Producers have had to and stop using presets.
It just shows you have no talent.
Spencer

spend years learning your craft like us old accountants and stop using a computer spreadsheet program!

if the AI mixing is at all possible, that means most of what makes up mixing is menial labor that doesn't require any talent.

using an AI to do menial parts of the job means you can concentrate on the more creative endeavors (ones that actually require talent!). for example, as a software developer, i spent years learning how to code and can pretty much code in Notepad without syntax highlighting etc., and mostly have my code compile and work the first time i write it. however, i welcome anything that makes my job easier, allows me to code faster and automates menial tasks - including AI-powered tools. if you can't code, you won't be able to code even with those tools, because it's not the menial parts of the job that make a programmer.

DPhil · Post by **DPhil** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:32 pm

spencerlee wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:36 am I don't understand. Why do you want AI to do your job.

Don't bother because it just won't work anyways imo. We can see on AI based mastering which is a far easier job how crap it is despite being years of work put into. We have things like Neutron which can already do basic stuff but far from "it does our job". And here we're talking about a product that is not even in concept state but already marketed as the ultimate solution to all the dumb mixing engineers (yes I remember the interview about it from melda).

A mixing AI will never create the mixes we can achieve simply because it has no taste, no feeling for if a resonance is good or bad, it doesn't get bored and doesn't listen to other music to get inspired for new techniques.

NothanUmber · Post by **NothanUmber** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:34 pm

Afaik there isn't even a computable concept for strong AI yet. "Just" machine learning heuristics for special domains. Which can be really good at what they do (playing Go, soon driving cars etc.) and already do some stuff that was previously done by humans.
New(ish) methods already do first steps into realms that were previously reserved for "creatives".
Probably as soon as a computer can do it, it won't be seen as creative anymore - problem solved, self-esteem rescued. Like chess was previously a sign of intelligence. As soon as computers could do it better, the definition of intelligence simply moved on. Even though superiority by (re)definition can give some comfort it might not be the ultimate answer...

Think in the forseeable future there will always be jobs where people are still better than computers. Question is - will these be enough - and is everybody qualified (or willing) to do or even learn these jobs.
Perhaps we'll indeed need another concept for society besides work for making a living. Not easy to find something that is compatible with humans and humanity - and where a transition from existing structures is even possible...

Boone777 · Post by **Boone777** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:18 pm

With AI I will be able to watch series while it's making music on the side and just put my name on it !

Seriously, if it can detect some nasty frequencies or imbalances and let us focus on the craft I think it can be cool. The tracks we get to mix from people recording themselves at home are often subpar. It often needs some serious fixing that can take long before starting to mix.

But I wonder how the AI can figure out if a track sounds better with MSpectralDynamics or MCharacter ?...

Anyhow it will certainly be a long WIP to get it to do it right IMO.

An interesting approach for exemple may be:
The track analyzed shows these particularities:
- A high peak to rms ratio
-A lot of sub or high frequencies
-ETC...

Click on peak to RMS analyzed and suggestions pops up:
Do you want to compress, distort or clip the peaks ?
Choose one or more and hit MIX button.
Shows a list of tools from wich to select, select a bunch and lets you hear/tweak between suggested results. Just an idea.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:32 pm

There's a lot of stuff computers could do for us

. No AI of course, but it can still tremendously improve our workflow. Unfortunately not on this one yet, still need to sort of finish MSF (basic version), then...

Hexspa · Post by **Hexspa** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:55 pm

AI can be pretty cool for music, imo. For instance, Cyanite helps me understand how others might perceive my music - a notoriously difficult task for artists even when people tell them directly to their face what they think. One of my major criticisms, though possibly unfair, was how Ableton didn't include some kind of AI-assisted browsing in their latest major release.

When you see things like XLN Audio's XO, it becomes clear that this is going to happen, nay, it's already happening. Adobe's Sensei has allowed them to improve graphic design tools to a warm reception. This isn't my forte, so I can't argue much about it, but suffice it to say that I totally welcome it as an option both for today and the future.

https://cyanite.ai/home-cyanite-ai-en/
https://www.adobe.com/sensei.html

spencerlee · Post by **spencerlee** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:01 am

One of the Major american record companies has fired their A&R department and hired an AI company to judge their future artists and the formulae for the music.
Good luck with that one. Now everything can sound exactly the same.
Spencer

spencerlee · Post by **spencerlee** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:04 am

I am all for computer assistance.
Instead of sitting down for days and cutting backing vocals into time and then tuning them one by one why not use synchro arts revoice pro. A great tool taking away the donkey work.
But machines writing the song for you is just plain stupid. Example David Guetta.
Spencer

spencerlee · Post by **spencerlee** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:28 am

Burillo wrote
"if the AI mixing is at all possible, that means most of what makes up mixing is menial labor that doesn't require any talent."

My life is mixing other peoples music. Film Scores, TV Series Scores and Records and has been for 50 years.
I never find it menial in any way. Mixing requires more talent than recording. This is where decisions are made on what the consumer hears. To say mixing is mostly menial labour is totally uninformed.
The self satisfaction you get from listening to your mixes in the theatre, on radio or tv is just indescribable.
Running everything through computer algorithms and saying this is my work is garbage.
As deadmouse5 says "if you get a sample and put an 808 kick on it and call it your music, is just rubbish".
Spencer

goldglob · Post by **goldglob** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:12 am

Robots miss out on all the fun...err..well, I think they do?

operator · Post by **operator** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:49 am

spencerlee wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:36 am I don't understand. Why do you want AI to do your job.
Spend years learning your craft like all us old Engineers and Producers have had to and stop using presets.
It just shows you have no talent.
Spencer

ohhh, maybe my post could be misinterpreted... I wasn't speaking of the mix revolution when I was talking of A. I.... i was talking about "neuro-link" and stuff like that. i want to merge (get inplants) with A. I. tec... I want to become (literally) a Hybrid.

I never use presets and the first thing I do when installing a new software is to delete the presets and read the manual. so you're barking at the wrong tree here mister... And believe me, I learned and am trying to learn my art to the fullest and deepest core my mind and my intelligence let me reach (probablly not the deepest core real intelligent people can reach, but I am happy with my progresses) so please do me a favor and insult someone else.

See it as evolutionary step in human history... (the merging with neural networks)... it s all about assimilating knowledge with a minimalized failure rate and increased bandwith and speed... and not that you press a button and it does the job for you. It is still me who would do the job, only with a whole lot of more knowledge at my base.
See it in that way, without the internet, books etc. (a disconnected extension of your mind/knowledge) you are just a primitive ape (and especially by your style of argumantation I can still see primal instincst [uncontrolable emotions, a little bit of narcisism aka. pride, etc. ]) Don´t get me wrong, I have those primal instincts aswell, this shouldn't be seen as an insult. We are all the same... human apes who throw feces at each other when the oposite has another opinion...

Or do you really think you could come up with the knowledge of mathematics and creating music relations by yourself... or even speaking and writing a language to communicate... i don t think so...

We are the sum of thousands of years of passing on knowledge, or to define it better, we are the sum of generations of perfecting the art of cumulating, documenting an passing on informations. if you think that your ability of mixing songs, commercials or whatever you do, is only your earnings... then sorry let me shatter your ego-centered world view: no it is not! you're just an ape (like me) who is fortunate enough to be at the top of a pyramid of cumulated knowledge.

So why shouldn´t we go to the next level? Only because our egos can´t handle the truth, that we´re not an individual special human being anymore... when we can upload every knowledge we want/need into our brain. I imagine: suddenly the world will see a shift in personalities, no more condescending each other anymore... no more people, who think they`re better then others... I imagine heaven like that... right now we have the oposite (hell). Everybody is living in sin (pride, hurt the neighbour by insulting/mobbing/condesending, following their "wrong" primal instincts, etc...) [I´m not a christian, this should only illlustrate my point]

spencerlee · Post by **spencerlee** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:36 am

Firstly I agree with most of what you have said.
My real gripe is expecting computers to do the job for you. I was not suggesting this is what you wanted or were doing.
I was using the royal "you" as being anybody who is expecting the computer to take on the creativity role and "you" (anybody) expecting not to put in the hard yards and learning the craft.
I engineered for a Composer for about 20 years who would not read a manual. So I took on the role of reading the manuals and learning how to programme his synths. With a bit of my input understanding the technology he was just fine.

I find youtube has been the greatest learning tool ever invented. 50 years ago when I was coming up as an engineer there was very little way of sharing knowledge.
The internet keeps me on the edge of what is happening with music and technology and allows me to contribute.
Hopefully I can do this for another 10 years but that maybe pushing it.
Spencer

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