Disappointment in hardware synths

[lfm]

You're right I had NFI how to handle that gear, I just loved the sound of both, that's what happens when you have more budget than time. Also, I don't see any issue with that approach, I'm sure that you can learn drive a car faster when you have it rather than you just read about it on the internet.

Just consider it education money and don't worry about it.
Neutron is brilliant in getting your mindset for modular - and you found maybe that isn't for you.

Other things to consider might be
- is mono synth really sufficient
- it will be sequencing single notes that you can do
- no chords, and don't be fooled by paraphonic - not polyphonic as you think.

If you want to continue with mono synths in modular style - look at Karma
www.karmafx.dk

You can learn a lot about modules - but using a computer then. And learn about which modules are important and what you want to get flexibility.

So money or budget was not an object.
If you find mono is what you want - and want all flexibility that comes with cross modulation and also save patches.
Check out
- Arturia MatrixBrute

16 sources to 16 destinations in a true matrix way - each source to 16 destinations with it's own amount.

The electronic patch bay is brilliant in making everything possible just about - and still can save electronically - no cables.

For me though polysynth is the thing - also a tool making music and you can actually play on it. Nice sounds and chords inspire to play - and there is where the fun starts for me.

Favorites for me are in this order
- Nordlead, VA synth but very nice sounding and excellent abilities to cross modulate on velocity and fun like no other synth so far for me.

I got a Nordlead 2X second hand for the same money as a Neutron and Model D from Behringer. 20 voices.

4 parts - so combining up to 4 timbres or use as 4 single timres from a sequencer - still polyphonic.

Every knob, 24 or so, can also be touched to create velocity crossmodulation to every knob, and just moving it will tell how much that parameter will vary with velocity. This is where Nordlead shines to me - every patch can be as expressive as an instrument by itself.

- Prologue - excellent sounding analog synth also equipped with a third digital oscillator that has 16 fm types and 16 user types, that you can download free or buy from certain vendors.

Also real fun to work with. Dual timbres to split on keyboard or layer.

- DeepMind - a must have but just down the list because there is some meddling through a display - even though most things are direct access. So just find I spend most time working with Nordlead and Prologue which are direct access everything important(Prologue some menues but clever approach and easy to find).

Even DM6 - is really compact and convenient to have on your lap - exploring it. But if first real polyphonic DM12 is better choice and can be used as master keyboard.

[zerocrossing]

Not every synth works for everyone. Now you know. While I find the sound of the new Behringer’s to be really good, not one of them entered my studio, save for the Deepmind 12, but to be honest, I didn’t find it sounded that great to me. Running a good software synth through the Soundtoys bundle gave me a better result. I did end up buying an X-Air 12 mixer, which has the same effects processor.

However, to say that you are “disappointed in hardware synths” is misleading. You tried two out of thousands of possible instruments and you feel like that’s enough to come to a conclusion? That’s n00btalk. There are plenty of hardware synths that provide a nice sized patch memory. A synth like the Prophet 08 has more modulation possibilities than Diva and many other software instruments. Personally, I’m with you in that I need a synth with patch memory. I’ve got fairly limited time to play these days, and if I have to start doing sound design with an instrument just to get it to make a sound that I’m looking for, I’ll probably end up blowing most of my studio time on patch design. What works best for me is to spend time on patch design on one day and then the next day load up some tracks with instruments (hardware and software) and their presets and get going, doing minor tweaks here and there. I can set up Bitwig to load up a file full of my instruments and even send PC messages to my hardware synths to they sound exactly like I need them to.

I’m not trying to force you into a workflow that’s not for you. Plugins are great these days, and you could probably go the rest of your life happily making music using only software and never miss a thing. Frankly, I like the whole ITB workflow more. Then again, I’ve yet to hear a software synth that sounded anything near the aforementioned Prophet 08... or the Prophet 12. Despite having the same filter, I can’t even get those two synths to sound like each other. So, take it for what it’s worth, but I find that there are hardware synths out there that just do it for me and I’m lucky to have the funds and space to keep a bunch around. I could totally get by without them, but I choose not to.

Here are some instruments that I’d recommend that would be hard to match with software yet have many of the same types of features that make software so handy.

MFB Dominion 1. A really great and unique analog mono with a lot going on under the hood. When you’re tired of that Model D sound but want something über phat.

MoPho. A single voice of the Prophet 08, but with a sub oscillator and feedback. Quirky and weird sounding with 4 LFOs and a sequencer that can be a modulation source. You can get the desktop box for peanuts, but if you want something knobby you’ll need the one with a built in keyboard.

Arturia Matrixbrute. Basically a full on little modular but with patch memory.

Sequential Pro 2. Similar in some ways to the Matrixbrute but with a digital oscillator section.

Roland SE-02. A fresh take on the Studio Electronics’ SE-1, which was a fresh take on the Moog Model D. It’s got more possible gain to the filters than the Boog that you didn’t like, but back off on the mixer and you can get a nice Moog sound and a lot more, including patch memory.

Anyway, I could go on. Prophet 6, OB-6, 002, 008, Moog Phattys, Voyager, Korg ‘logues. Each of them is different and has lots of modern features that you might dig.

[Distorted Horizon]

That neutron and model d he so disliked

Oh shit I don't own either of those.. Haha only synth I own that doesn't store patches is the behringer Crave lol

I meant Romans synths.. You can keep yours

[BertKoor]

I'd say this is about learning these devices as instruments, mastering them. It takes time...

My first hardware synth was a second-hand Arp Axxe. Monophonic, no patch memory. If you had found a nice sound, you'd have to jot down the position of all the controls on paper (diy patch sheets) and chords needed multiple takes.

The thing is, because you start each next patch from random scratch, happy accidents will start to happen. And after time you won't need the patch sheets anymore. You will have learnt what the essential ingredients are for the sound you want. It won't be exactly the same, but close enough and will work just as well.

[roman.i]

Thanks for the relevant replies,

..
Perhaps look at it as it needs a workflow where you try different things, and once you get something that sounds great, capture that sound as soon as possible as it won't come again in quite the same way. sort of the old way to making music, which I think those particular Behringer modules and the era they come from, are a recreation of.
...

That's the first thing comes to mind. I guess the idea is to capture the patch in the most "agile" way,
for example with auto-sampling, unfortunately majority of samplers don't support this feature.
I found only one plugin that does that on Windows, the Sample robot, but it costs like another Behringer synth.

Same thoughts.

Well, I picked Make Noise 0-Coast, which is certainly not the workhorse synth, rather experimental contraption.

Still, I figured out to record anything, I need to already know what to record - need to have melody and progressions in place and just tweak the knobs. Otherwise, whatever I record will end up in a trash,. as it's not possible to change the melody anymore once it's recorded :/

Maybe if I had sequencer, things would work quicker. But Ableton should already cover all sequencer needs I could think of.

Yep, this type of workflow works only for oneshot effects.

...
Personally, I’m with you in that I need a synth with patch memory. I’ve got fairly limited time to play these days, and if I have to start doing sound design with an instrument just to get it to make a sound that I’m looking for, I’ll probably end up blowing most of my studio time on patch design.
What works best for me is to spend time on patch design on one day and then the next day load up some tracks with instruments (hardware and software) and their presets and get going, doing minor tweaks here and there. I can set up Bitwig to load up a file full of my instruments and even send PC messages to my hardware synths to they sound exactly like I need them to.

...

That's exactly the problem I encountered with analog first approach, I'm thinking now to switch to the opposite,
first to finish the track and then to swap some of the vst tracks with similar patches from analog synths.

[Whywhy]

then I discovered that there is no way to save patches

Dammit! You mean I’m going to have to learn how to recreate the sound I get from this patching?

ive just copied this! awesome kick sound dude

Good one Vurt !

[Aloysius]

someone had spaghetti for dinner?

[db3]

My first consideration before any hardware synth purchase is how do I integrate into my workflow. As such, I only consider hardware synths which have presets and a VST plugin for total recall. Two inexpensive analogues which have an official VST plugin include the Moog Minitaur and Roland SE-02.

[roman.i]

Just consider it education money and don't worry about it.
Neutron is brilliant in getting your mindset for modular - and you found maybe that isn't for you.

..

I see a lot of people talking about synths like it's all about the features, for me it's about the sound and in most cases I hear synths that can't create any usable sound for me. So I got these two synths, I love how they sound and I don't regret I bought them. I'm not interested to buy another synth that have flexible features but sounds different. The whole point of this thread was to find a faster workflow for my setup.

[vurt]

Just consider it education money and don't worry about it.
Neutron is brilliant in getting your mindset for modular - and you found maybe that isn't for you.

..

I see a lot of people talking about synths like it's all about the features, for me it's about the sound and in most cases I hear synths that can't create any usable sound for me. So I got these two synths, I love how they sound and I don't regret I bought them. I'm not interested to buy another synth that have flexible features but sounds different. The whole point of this thread was to find a faster workflow for my setup.

the joke about the kick, some people do synthesise all those bits, sample odd hits/tones and build kits in software samplers.
or sample a range of keys so you can build a pitched instrument using a sampler.

jam for a bit, slice and make loops.

[recursive one]

When I use my Microbrute i program some midi in the DAW, then make a patch then record it while tweaking knobs in real-time. Usually i record few takes and select the one i like the most. I also take photos of the front panel and save them with some meaningful names (sort of patch memory )

I think it's very fun and inspiring way to work with a synth, but Microbrute is a very simple synth, it doesn't take long to came up with a useable sound. If it was something more complex i think it would not be that cool. That's why i didn't buy Neutron, i realized it would be a real nightmare to re-program it each time.

My other HW synth is Virus Snow but working with it is not much different from software synths.

[kvotchin]

One thing I find useful for synths like the Neutron, Mother32, etc., is to snapshot patches (literally, take a photo). Or yeah, video if there’s some changes midstream.

You get used to it, IME.

[foosnark]

I think it's very fun and inspiring way to work with a synth, but Microbrute is a very simple synth, it doesn't take long to came up with a useable sound. If it was something more complex i think it would not be that cool. That's why i didn't buy Neutron, i realized it would be a real nightmare to re-program it each time.

I do tend to prefer simpler synths (without patch recall). But I would consider Neutron still pretty simple -- familiar subtractive architecture, 2 oscs, 1 filter, 2 ADSR envelopes, 1 LFO. The patch bay opens it up some, but it's nothing crazy and you can almost completely ignore it.

Even with a more complex modular, it's still mostly just a matter of putting pieces together, like how a Lego set with 2000 pieces isn't really any more difficult than a set with 20 pieces. You just can't keep the whole thing in your head, which is where color coded cables or some written notes can help. (Or just not getting that crazy in the first place.)

[yellowmix]

That's the first thing comes to mind. I guess the idea is to capture the patch in the most "agile" way,
for example with auto-sampling, unfortunately majority of samplers don't support this feature.
I found only one plugin that does that on Windows, the Sample robot, but it costs like another Behringer synth.

Chicken Systems Translator Pro comes with an autosampler. I use it to build instruments from my hardware synths. It's about $75 when on sale (you just missed the holiday sale), and you also get a great tool to convert sampled instruments from one format to another.

[yellowmix]

The whole point of this thread was to find a faster workflow for my setup.

You may find https://patch-library.net/patches?devic ... er-neutron useful. It's a virtual patch sheet that lets you connect wires graphically but also automatically generates a list of routings. They also have one for the Model D (see top row buttons).

I bought different-colored patch cables. Helps to see the connections, especially if you're taking a photo of it.