Arturia Pigments 2 (Free Update): Now it's Granular

[machinesworking]

.... Didn't expect I'll like it, demoed it just because of the sale. But damn, well spent bit of money imo.

It was such a good deal that I got it too, and I’m really impressed so far.

You’re definitely not the only one who likes it!

Good to hear. I'm not even opposed to people pointing out the weakness's of a particular synth, it's just weird to me that people do it as if it's weak parts are all there is? Multiple posts in this thread of "I can't get it to sound like 'x' power synth or dedicated analog emulation, so therefore this synth is bunk!" Why do you even buy other synths if you need them all to sound like Massive X? I just don't get the reasoning.

Comparing two the hardware synths here, the Oberheim Xpander has noticeably slower envelopes than the Memorymoog. Early digital envelopes on the Oberheim have a couple millisecond delay etc. This doesn't mean that the Oberheim is a POS, it just means that when doing snappy bass lines with the Xpander you have to keep this in mind. The moog does three oscillators and unison stacked voices really easily as well, but the Oberheim has 6+ filter types, and the LFO's can trigger the envelopes for generative self playing patches. They're different synths with different strengths and weakness's.

The complaints about the Pigment filters, right off the SEM and Xpander filters are not weak, at all. My point was/is that all synths in a shoot out will have strengths and weakness's, to think they all have to have fat analog oscillators etc. is weird.

[BONES]

I am the same. In fact, I want to hear about the weaknesses at least as much as the strengths. But when someone says something that is patently wrong or ridiculous, that gets my back up. I get that if you listen to the first few presets, Pigments isn't going to knock your socks off like the first few presets in most other synths but when I heard them, I was immediately intrigued because they were so refreshingly different from what you usually get. Ice King, for example, isn't a patch I would ever use but it is such a beautiful, delicate sound that it got me interested straight away.

When I really got into Pigments, though, was when I started playing around with it, making my own sounds. It's the easiest mega-synth to use that I have encountered. It's really well thought-out and the workflow is brilliantly fast and easy. The strip of modulation animations makes it so easy to see exactly what's going on, it's genius. Thorn and Hive are really going to struggle to get a look in now that I have this.

I think you're also right in saying that too many people expect everything to be just another analogue emulation, which is just stupid. I ran out of things to use Legend for after about a week. Even Korg's ARP Odyssey stopped being useful after a surprisingly short time, given how much I had listed after the real thing for so many years. The SEM filter in Pigments is already my go-to, I love being able to dial in a bit of notch with my low-pass.

Well, I'm having one now (A Hoegaarden, one of the excellent Belgian beers; Yumm yumm ) and plenty of beer in the house.

I haven't had a Hoegaarden in years. I never really understood the attraction Belgian beers, if I'm honest. They are mostly too malty for my taste, I prefer a good balance between the hops and malts. I've been drinking a few different brown ales over Xmas but I'll be back onto the Ambers tonight, for New Year's.

sylneth sounds like a clown synth, all the sounds are goofy and weak. you must be insane!

Don't waste your breath, they won't listen. It's a terrible synth but it's been hyped to the stratosphere so you are not allowed to criticise it. You can see what happens when you do - four pages of drivel.

Am I missing something or is there no support for release velocity on this? I wish companies would stop saying “MPE compatible” when its missing one of the best parts of MPE.

Release velocity is part of the standard MIDI spec, it has nothing to do with MPE. Yes, most MPE controllers utilise it but you can be 100% MPE compatible without supporting release velocity. That said, I'm sure I read somewhere that you can assign release velocity to parameters but I can't remember where I saw it.

It’s still a fun synth that is extremely capable of lots of useful things, but one of the best things about MPE is the playability, and release velocity changing aspects of the spaces between notes, or changing the shape/ length of the release stage of an envelope is one of the best parts about it.

Can't say I've found it in any way useful myself. I think it is mostly too subtle to be noticeable to a listener but I get how you'd notice when you were playing.

[EnGee]

I am the same. In fact, I want to hear about the weaknesses at least as much as the strengths. But when someone says something that is patently wrong or ridiculous, that gets my back up.

The only ridiculous is your attitude! No need to be rude and arrogant! Some of us already said their opinions without insulting the others and with a civilised way, but you made a storm of nothing and start shooting with your mouth!

Moderator will possibly delete my post because it seems I crossed the line! But it is ok for Bones to keep insulting the others! Good job Hink!

[Hink]

so you call me out by name...seriously? I'll leave your cheap shot right there

[Hink]

now its back on topic stay on topic please...off topic posts may be deleted

because it was at the bottom of the last page

[machinesworking]

I am the same. In fact, I want to hear about the weaknesses at least as much as the strengths. But when someone says something that is patently wrong or ridiculous, that gets my back up.

The only ridiculous is your attitude! No need to be rude and arrogant! Some of us already said their opinions without insulting the others and with a civilised way, but you made a storm of nothing and start shooting with your mouth!

Moderator will possibly delete my post because it seems I crossed the line! But it is ok for Bones to keep insulting the others! Good job Hink!

I think you need to look up the term ad hominem. It's not an ad hominem to call your ideas wrong or ridiculous, it's an ad hominem to call you ridiculous or stupid for having those ideas.

This isn't hard to follow, ideas are always debatable, but when you assign a personality to those ideas, i.e. "you're an idiot" as opposed to "your point is idiotic". Even though the later isn't the most civilized way to say it, it's not directly attacking the person.

People would do so much better on forums if they could figure this out, and we could talk about cool stuff a lot more than argue about who is a big meanie and whose ass smells like flowers.

[machinesworking]

I am the same. In fact, I want to hear about the weaknesses at least as much as the strengths. But when someone says something that is patently wrong or ridiculous, that gets my back up. I get that if you listen to the first few presets, Pigments isn't going to knock your socks off like the first few presets in most other synths but when I heard them, I was immediately intrigued because they were so refreshingly different from what you usually get. Ice King, for example, isn't a patch I would ever use but it is such a beautiful, delicate sound that it got me interested straight away.

When I really got into Pigments, though, was when I started playing around with it, making my own sounds. It's the easiest mega-synth to use that I have encountered. It's really well thought-out and the workflow is brilliantly fast and easy. The strip of modulation animations makes it so easy to see exactly what's going on, it's genius. Thorn and Hive are really going to struggle to get a look in now that I have this.

I think you're also right in saying that too many people expect everything to be just another analogue emulation, which is just stupid. I ran out of things to use Legend for after about a week. Even Korg's ARP Odyssey stopped being useful after a surprisingly short time, given how much I had listed after the real thing for so many years. The SEM filter in Pigments is already my go-to, I love being able to dial in a bit of notch with my low-pass.

Yeah I own the entire V-Collection and use mostly the SEM, Synclavier and I'm sure I'll get use out of the DX7 emu as well. IMO U-He did analog emulation right with Diva, the rest? might as well get the hardware.
I do like Arturia's take on the Matrix 12 filters as well, just wish they included all of them from the Matrix.

I don't hate analog emulations, but lately I'm all about modern synths -
Falcon, Lion, Pigments and Cypher 2 are in high rotation.

[Ah_Dziz]

Bones,
It’s definitely listed as one of the 5 D’s Of expression in all the MPE literature. Glide, slide, pressure, velocity and release velocity. I’ve done a bit of programming in my time and it seems like a pretty trivial thing to implement. Unfortunately most instruments just look for a note on with a velocity of zero which is interpreted as a note off instead. After using equator for a while, I got kinda hooked on using it to control delay feedback, release length, and so forth. So far the only other things that do this natively are cypher and strobe, and they are pretty unstable on my rig. This is including the betas, and the official releases. Just seems like a bit of a lame thing to leave out when it’s not a huge programming problem.

[BONES]

The 5D's of expression are separate to the MPE spec, not a part of it. I use my Roli Seaboard Block every day without MPE and I still have access to all 5 dimensions of touch. I just have to spend a bit of time assigning each to a parameter in whatever synth I want to control, but that's also true with MPE. Of all the 5 Ds, I think release velocity is probably the one fewest care about. In fact, until very recently I didn't even know it was part of the MIDI spec, even though it has been for decades. It's just not something many people find much use for, which makes you an outlier. As someone who has spent most of his life as an outlier in multiple areas, it's just something you need to learn to live with.

[FarleyCZ]

Thorn and Hive are really going to struggle to get a look in now that I have this.

I have both of them too. I'd even add Dune to that list. They are, to me, a speciality synths. Hive has this silky etheric quality about it's filter. Awesome for laid back sounds. Dune has a stunning unisono engine. It's my go to for synth strings for that very reason. And Thorn is really cool when it comes to that harmonic filter feature. It can do really unusual stuff when modulated.

But so far I like how Pigments fits into the picture by having several synthesis options yet being quick and easy and sounding decently analogish as well. It's like a "mini Falcon". When you have a quick idea but the big boy would be overkill for it. Me likey.

[Echoes in the Attic]

The 5D's of expression are separate to the MPE spec, not a part of it. I use my Roli Seaboard Block every day without MPE and I still have access to all 5 dimensions of touch. I just have to spend a bit of time assigning each to a parameter in whatever synth I want to control, but that's also true with MPE. Of all the 5 Ds, I think release velocity is probably the one fewest care about. In fact, until very recently I didn't[' even know it was part of the MIDI spec, even though it has been for decades. It's just not something many people find much use for, which makes you an outlier. As someone who has spent most of his life as an outlier in multiple areas, it's just something you need to learn to live with.

Well the mpe spec specially references 3 dimensions. And while it only briefly mentions note off velocity, that would fall under other messages that should be handled as per channel pitch bend is handled. But yes it does not say anywhere that an mpe instrument must include release velocity.

Obviously ah_dziz is talking mpe 5d though, and specifically using release velocity as a polyphonic modulation source. Non-mpe 5d is irrelevant. You can have as many dimensions as you want in a monophonic patch, or if you’re happy having a single channel modulation for all voices. Well as many as you can assign midi CC’s anyways. So it means nothing to say you have 5d without mpe if someone else is talking about mpe and you are just midi learning gestures.

[BONES]

No, ah-dziz is just another in a long line of idiots who can't separate one thing from the other. Nothing more.

[Echoes in the Attic]

No, ah-dziz is just another in a long line of idiots who can't separate one thing from the other. Nothing more.

I don't see anything inaccurate about what he said, except that you don't need release velocity to be MPE compatible but in fairness he just said he "wished" people would stop saying mpe compatible when no release velocity. He can wish all he wants, there's nothing wrong with leaving it out. And while I personally am not that into release velocity, it would be cool for Arturia to add to Pigments.

I don't see what you are so up in arms about, or what he is failing to separate. 5D is Roli speak and is used to refer to MPE expressions (ie. capable of modulation per note on separate channels). Release velocity is a common expression for mpe hardware. Nothing about this justifies calling people idiots. Chill out man.

[Hink]

agreed and please^^^^^let's stay on topic...and the topic is not other people...last time I'll say it tbh

[Vortifex]

Is there a way to stop that awful retriggering when you play the same note with a long release?