Korg wavestate

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5741 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:00 am

deastman wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:55 am
BONES wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:40 pm
Without a display the configuration options must be pretty limited, surely?
Not really. All the parameters are labeled around the perimeter of the device, and the grid itself serves as a display when adjusting parameters.

I think the earlier point was that Wavestate supports polyphonic aftertouch, and so a controller such as the LinnStrument could be used to send that information. A Seaboard would be just as good an option for that.

I’m not entirely sure how I feel about new synths not supporting full MPE. After all, it is an official part of the MIDI spec now, and one would think a major manufacturer like Korg would implement it wherever possible. On the other hand, based on my own experience with MPE controllers and how I use them, the lack of support on this particular synth isn’t a dealbreaker for me.
The full spec for MIDI 1.0 has historically not been supported by much hardware. I’m not surprised MPE is still ignored. I can’t wait to see how much of the MIDI 2.0 spec makes its way into the mainstream of products. Any at all?
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

waiting man
KVRAF
2734 posts since 30 Aug, 2001 from where dinosaurs are still alive

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:02 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:58 am
Does this thing have a randomizer function like the iWavestation app? I’m actually surprised that randomizers aren’t implemented more often. Only VirSyn as a company and a couple other products (Reaktor, and...??) seem to have such a function. Is that to protect the market for preset sales? :hihi:
yes it does.
hope it's not totally overkill like the iWave one, though.

lfm
KVRAF
5201 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:38 am

waiting man wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:02 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:58 am
Does this thing have a randomizer function like the iWavestation app? I’m actually surprised that randomizers aren’t implemented more often. Only VirSyn as a company and a couple other products (Reaktor, and...??) seem to have such a function. Is that to protect the market for preset sales? :hihi:
yes it does.
hope it's not totally overkill like the iWave one, though.
A thread a year ago about accidental programming and randomizing
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=518208&p=7282382& ... l#p7282382

It is a mystery it's not more common....it can be interesting way to find a new direction to move....

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19313 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:38 am

Devastator wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:29 am
but they can read off (say a 1 MB sample) at 3000MB/s (on an NVME SSD).


Note that that is sequential read speed with high QD. For ad hoc sample retrieval you need to look at random 4K read, and QD1 usually.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5741 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:10 am

lfm wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:38 am
waiting man wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:02 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:58 am
Does this thing have a randomizer function like the iWavestation app? I’m actually surprised that randomizers aren’t implemented more often. Only VirSyn as a company and a couple other products (Reaktor, and...??) seem to have such a function. Is that to protect the market for preset sales? :hihi:
yes it does.
hope it's not totally overkill like the iWave one, though.
A thread a year ago about accidental programming and randomizing
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=518208&p=7282382& ... l#p7282382

It is a mystery it's not more common....it can be interesting way to find a new direction to move....
That’s funny, I even posted in that thread myself.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

Devastator
KVRist
33 posts since 24 Feb, 2013

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:12 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:38 am
Devastator wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:29 am
but they can read off (say a 1 MB sample) at 3000MB/s (on an NVME SSD).


Note that that is sequential read speed with high QD. For ad hoc sample retrieval you need to look at random 4K read, and QD1 usually.
That is not sequential read speed I was quoting, it was 512KB read speed on a Samsung 970 EVO (at least according to ATTO Disk Benchmark, not sure how accurate it is TBH).
Going off the far more conservative CrystalDiskMark with 4KB and a QD of 4 (16KB, which seems to be about the low end of size for a single cycle waveform) still gives about 300MB/s, which should be able to load that 16KB sample in about 1/18000 of a second + seek latency (unless my maths is wildly off).

This is all still assuming a standard NVME NAND SSD, which are massively slower at 4k reads than 3D X Point (aka Optane) SSDs.

waiting man
KVRAF
2734 posts since 30 Aug, 2001 from where dinosaurs are still alive

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:01 pm

lfm wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:38 am
waiting man wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:02 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:58 am
Does this thing have a randomizer function like the iWavestation app? I’m actually surprised that randomizers aren’t implemented more often. Only VirSyn as a company and a couple other products (Reaktor, and...??) seem to have such a function. Is that to protect the market for preset sales? :hihi:
yes it does.
hope it's not totally overkill like the iWave one, though.
A thread a year ago about accidental programming and randomizing
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=518208&p=7282382& ... l#p7282382

It is a mystery it's not more common....it can be interesting way to find a new direction to move....
Can’t remember where it started, probably with the glorius Oatmeal and Reaktor’s noise generators.
I now have lots of gear with no randomizer but I always & fondly keep my perky sound-shockers close.
uTonic, Sunriser, Kauldron...hell, I’m in the “still believing in Synplant2” club.

Daags
KVRAF
2237 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:39 am

what's the reason this synth won't take user samples ?
is there a technical limitation, or is it simply a design philosophy ?

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19313 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:15 am

Design decision, it seems. It's not using fixed ROM memory, so theoretically it COULD support user samples, but will it, only Korg decides.

lfm
KVRAF
5201 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:32 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:15 am
Design decision, it seems. It's not using fixed ROM memory, so theoretically it COULD support user samples, but will it, only Korg decides.
I think it might be more likely they do as with Prologue and user oscillators and effects - make a 3rd party SDK to provide wave tables fulfilling certain criteria. For oscillators max size could be 32k it seems, but some kind of rules must apply.

But for Prologue it was planned from start, so guess very different what you can allow after design was made.

Some samples in Wavestate are multi sampled, like piano has to be. You cannot stretch a piano above an octave to sound anything like piano - and that goes for many other instruments too. And even having layers on the same note is better to the real thing. But you always simulate a bit with opening/closing filter with velocity - which I had to do while using AddictiveKeys, so be smoother on lighter touch.

So a firmware update that allow upload of 3rd party wavetables - maybe approved such libraries - in Wavestate.

This guy go through a bunch of samples while doing this tut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX6VEDM_KTk

I tried to find a list of all samples in there - but it's seems huge in various categories apart from waveforms. The same amount of variations like when doing alternate morphing in some synths, but as separate sample choice - just browse and listen, as in tut above.

And a load of various filter types - even multifilter with shelving low and high as well as two bp, as I recall. And ability to sequence new sample in each step, this for 4 parts/layers - I wonder if anybody would make a fuss over that this is limited.

You cannot do everything in every synth anyway. The more I looked into Wavestate the more impressed I were what is there. As you can see in tut above - he did not find a limit to how many modulations you can add. And he did quite a few. He showed joystick to alter modulations in various ways - not just volume balance between layers. You can even turn off volume balance and only go for joystick change modulations stuff.

The randomizer - at the level of program and below or start deeper in detail what you want to randomize - can help if imagination ever hits the ceiling.

I guess I'm a fanboi already - before even having hands on. :D

Daags
KVRAF
2237 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:11 pm

it looks great, but it always rubs me up the wrong way when an instrument, particularly contemporary instruments, uses sample data and there's no provision for me to upload my own that adhere to the same restrictions/limits. i'll be keeping an eye on this instrument in the hopes that using my own sample data becomes a feature at some point.

kritikon
KVRAF
5124 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:06 pm

I'm already a Wavestation fanboy...Just recently bought the Wavestation VST to replace my ageing hw one. But, OMFG. What does the Wavestate NOT do? I never thought Korg would revisit the WS, so this thing is like a wet dream. They put way more stuff in it than I could have wished for in my wildest dreams...even a set of filters that (on first hearing) sound just like the real things....Wavestation on steroids through multiple variations of MS20 filters :love: I used to put my WS through my MS20 and tbh, you can't do anything like what this beast seems to do.

In terms of wish list. ..about the only thing this keyboard doesn't do is a hand that comes out from underneath to give you a wank while you're playing it (all editable by the white parameter knobs of course...speed, grip, tickle, lube strength, fingernail length...)

Oh shit, now I have to start saving. That is one beautiful synth...I'll never get any tunes done with it. I'd be too sidetracked just playing and making weird noises with it. Korg have instantly leaped to number 1 synth company again, and some. :clap: :clap: :clap: :pray: :hyper:

kritikon
KVRAF
5124 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:18 pm

I checked out all the demos/vids I could find, and it looks even more impressive. Seems to be modulation madness - pretty well a modular synth, and you can modulate the wavesequences as well as all the usual stuff. How much fun can one have on a joystick?

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layzer
KVRAF
6714 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:07 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:57 pm
layzer wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
they should have made this into an updated wavestation plugin instead of a HW synth :idea:
Korg is a hardware company that only semi-seriously dabbles in software just to make sure their income is diversified via infrequent opportunism in the computer realm. Of course they put this into a keyboard.

Hell, it wouldn’t surprise me if this product was proposed as an update to the Wavestation plugin, only to have executives say “are you kidding? We are a hardware company. The new stuff goes in keyboards!”
"are you kidding? we are an electric hotdog cooker company" then the microwave oven comes along..... :scared:
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

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Russell Grand
KVRAF
2392 posts since 22 May, 2017

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:40 pm

Man, I want this synth bad... I just don't have the funds for this puppy. :(

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