Where is Clip Automation?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 59 posts since 4 Apr, 2011
Waveform has everything I always wanted but could never find within a single DAW except one feature... Clip Automation. This is very strange to me because Audio Clips have FX that pretty much work like Clip Automation, except I can only apply curves to a few native effects but no to other automatable parameters. Also, it would be nice if both Audio and MIDI Clips supported FX/Automation (like in Ableton/Logic/S1). It would also be nice to have Automation Clips (similar to FL Studio) that could be placed on an automation track and modulate the parameter assigned to that track. When linked copies of an Automation Clip would be placed on the same or different automation tracks (to modulate other parameters), they could be a huge time saver.
Please, make Waveform my dream DAW!!!
Please, make Waveform my dream DAW!!!
- KVRian
- 506 posts since 10 Nov, 2018
There are no automation 'clips' in Waveform but you can always copy automation curve points to different tracks. Also, 'automation lock' links the automation curves to the individual clips, so when you copy the clips, the automation is also copied.
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- KVRAF
- 2323 posts since 9 Oct, 2008 from UK
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.
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- KVRist
- 64 posts since 20 Sep, 2019
I am afraid this youtube vid is not the answer to OP's question, cause it doesn't show
parameter automation for Clip FX.
Parameter automation for Clip FX, by means of drawing automation, is just not implemented in Waveform (yet).
I very hope it will be, eventually, cause it's extremely powerful.
The only DAW i know of that has parameter "drawable" automation for Clip FX is Reaper.
It's amazing for sounddesign.
parameter automation for Clip FX.
Parameter automation for Clip FX, by means of drawing automation, is just not implemented in Waveform (yet).
I very hope it will be, eventually, cause it's extremely powerful.
The only DAW i know of that has parameter "drawable" automation for Clip FX is Reaper.
It's amazing for sounddesign.
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spoontechnique spoontechnique https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=418750
- KVRist
- 427 posts since 7 May, 2018
If I understand what you're talking about, you want automation to be handled in a similar way to midi clips? So you could have 1 automation clip and easily copy/paste it onto other tracks?
I 100% agree. Automation as it's currently handled is faurly unintuitive. I don't like having to select regions to copy and past automation. I don't like the dialogs and menus for automation shapes. A clip system would more closely resemble the existing paradigm of midi/audio/step clips. It'd make it easier to stretch/manipulate/copy/cut/move automation patterns. Would be an amazing update.
I 100% agree. Automation as it's currently handled is faurly unintuitive. I don't like having to select regions to copy and past automation. I don't like the dialogs and menus for automation shapes. A clip system would more closely resemble the existing paradigm of midi/audio/step clips. It'd make it easier to stretch/manipulate/copy/cut/move automation patterns. Would be an amazing update.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 59 posts since 4 Apr, 2011
Many DAWs implement clip automation in addition to track automation. That way the automation is part of the clip and of course goes with it whenever moved, copied, deleted or cloned. Logic, Ableton, Studio One, etc have this. This feature can also be used to generate Automation clips, that only contain automation and can be used on multiple tracks. See for example FL Studio and Reaper.
Hope this gets implemented soon because it's the only thing that keeps me from switching. A clip launcher or performance mode would also be nice (see Ableton, Bitwig, Digital Performer or Performance mode in FL Studio).
Hope this gets implemented soon because it's the only thing that keeps me from switching. A clip launcher or performance mode would also be nice (see Ableton, Bitwig, Digital Performer or Performance mode in FL Studio).
- KVRian
- 704 posts since 25 Jul, 2010 from Northern Ireland
A clip launcher or performance mode would also be nice
+1 from me. A developers roadmap would be great to see which features they plan for future releases too.
I'm sure if the demand becomes big enough from the user base for a clip launcher ( send in your requests through the support channel ) it will eventually come. Hell knows they could even work with another company to make exclusive pad controllers for Waveform
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spoontechnique spoontechnique https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=418750
- KVRist
- 427 posts since 7 May, 2018
You can use the auto lock setting to tie automation to specific clips. But that's only half as good as just having automation clips. Would love to be able to pop out an automation editor like midi clips, then move it everywhere. I've used a ton of automation lately and I'm a bit frustrated with the existing system.
A clip launcher would be a waste of time. They've been clear that they're targeting bedroom musicians, and a clip launcher would take a lot of resources and ultimately probably not draw anyone away from Live. Seems like a lot or work to very little benefit.
A clip launcher would be a waste of time. They've been clear that they're targeting bedroom musicians, and a clip launcher would take a lot of resources and ultimately probably not draw anyone away from Live. Seems like a lot or work to very little benefit.
- KVRian
- 506 posts since 10 Nov, 2018
Very well said.spoontechnique wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:39 pm A clip launcher would be a waste of time. They've been clear that they're targeting bedroom musicians, and a clip launcher would take a lot of resources and ultimately probably not draw anyone away from Live. Seems like a lot or work to very little benefit.
- KVRian
- 704 posts since 25 Jul, 2010 from Northern Ireland
I have to agree to disagree guys, I should have stated that I was thinking of the way Bitwig have their clip launcher integrated. Think of it as a sketchpad for song ideas and implemented as Bitwig have, where clip launching can be recorded as a song into the edit. This I find makes me more creative, finding ideas on the fly I would not have done just moving clips around on the timeline.exponent1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:45 amVery well said.spoontechnique wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:39 pm A clip launcher would be a waste of time. They've been clear that they're targeting bedroom musicians, and a clip launcher would take a lot of resources and ultimately probably not draw anyone away from Live. Seems like a lot or work to very little benefit.
We could also create complex structures by having the launched clips trigger length be set for different lengths 16ths, 32nds etc etc....Bitwig does a great job of this. In theory we can do this using splitting on the Edit timeline, but doing it in realtime is more spontaneous in my humble opinion. thanks
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spoontechnique spoontechnique https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=418750
- KVRist
- 427 posts since 7 May, 2018
You've undermined your own point. Anyone who cares about live performance and a clip launcher will use Live or Bitwig. They've cornered that niche. You can't really compete with the decades of effort that have been put into Live/Bitwig's performance features as well as their marketing.
But on the bedroom musician front, can Waveform carve out a niche? Absolutely, especially with a powerful free option. And I think the arranger track feature upcoming will be more than enough for most.
But on the bedroom musician front, can Waveform carve out a niche? Absolutely, especially with a powerful free option. And I think the arranger track feature upcoming will be more than enough for most.
- KVRian
- 506 posts since 10 Nov, 2018
Not worth the programming effort by the devs IMHO. Besides, the new Arranger track feature in Waveform 11 could be used to quickly sequence your arrangements, much like Regions in Reaper.mikoatkvr wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:38 pmI have to agree to disagree guys, I should have stated that I was thinking of the way Bitwig have their clip launcher integrated. Think of it as a sketchpad for song ideas and implemented as Bitwig have, where clip launching can be recorded as a song into the edit. This I find makes me more creative, finding ideas on the fly I would not have done just moving clips around on the timeline.exponent1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:45 amVery well said.spoontechnique wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:39 pm A clip launcher would be a waste of time. They've been clear that they're targeting bedroom musicians, and a clip launcher would take a lot of resources and ultimately probably not draw anyone away from Live. Seems like a lot or work to very little benefit.
We could also create complex structures by having the launched clips trigger length be set for different lengths 16ths, 32nds etc etc....Bitwig does a great job of this. In theory we can do this using splitting on the Edit timeline, but doing it in realtime is more spontaneous in my humble opinion. thanks
A clip launcher even as a sketchpad is a lot of programming effort. I'd rather they spend their effort stabilizing the current feature set and the new ones in 11 and provide some required features like Monitoring Bus, Automation Clips, more powerful and flexible automation curve editing etc. rather than some basic non-linear clip based production/performing features.
Tracktion's vision (as mentioned in one of their recent videos) is not to compete with the likes of Bitwig or Ableton or Logic. It's aimed towards bedroom producers/musicians who want a good song writing/production tool and it's doing it fairly well. But I believe with some macros on the mixer, you could potentially perform. We will have to wait for W11 to drop, to really find out the new features in depth.