Korg wavestate

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VitaminD
Pick Me Pick me!
8834 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:08 pm

I'm not a big hardware fan, yet I'm enamored by the demos of the pads coming out of this machine. I hope they release a version without the keys at some point. Maybe even just a rack. I don't need keys. I already have lots of keys.

lfm
KVRAF
5201 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:05 am

It's an absolute monster tool Wavestate - listen to some factory patches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5i_1G0ph7s

IgnisMalleus
KVRer
29 posts since 2 May, 2015

Re: Korg Wavestate, Best of Korg since Kronos

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:30 am

Granted its only 36 keys but its price is awesome for this kind of sound. I hope once I can afford it that they are available. When I first heard about it, I was like, I hope they do a module because I already have keyboards. Then I thought about that, my Yamaha MODX, which is a totally different type of machine, has performances that only do what they do if they are played from its own 61 keys. I connected my Studiologic SL88 Studio to my MODX and found that many performances even the Bosendorfer Piano Collection will only produce sound on certain notes or keys if I use the Keybed on the MODX. I really don't understand that and wish someone could explain it. In order to get certain parts of a MODX Performance to sound, I had to go into the SL88 and switch midi tx channels until I found which one that particular part of the performance on the MODX would be triggered on. It would be great if I could get them to all just play if my SL88 is simply transmitting on channel 1. With all that said, I wonder if maybe the Wavestate Module hope would be pointless because of this same kind of thing, where it may have patches like that.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9474 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:43 pm

lfm wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:05 am
It's an absolute monster tool Wavestate - listen to some factory patches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5i_1G0ph7s
I've just been listening to this while I work and it is very, very impressive. The filters have that characteristic Korg bite on the basslines and some of the pads and leads are just sublime. Modal are going to have a lot of trouble convincing anyone to buy an Argon 8 over this baby, especially as Wavestate is Au$200 cheaper here in Australia.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:09 pm

lfm wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:05 am
It's an absolute monster tool Wavestate - listen to some factory patches
Very impressive synth... sounds top notch with lots of useful presets than can be easily modified by the macros and other knobs... super deep synth but accessible enough with the physical controls... good price not too heavy... seems like KORG will sell lots of them

lfm
KVRAF
5201 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:18 pm

Korg released voice name list with all the factory performances, programs, wavesequences, multisamples and the now retired Wavestation stuff and Plugin Guru and effects as well.
https://www.korg.com/us/support/download/product/0/840/

Korg did not hold back on anything. Timbres to start off with as well as storage space and modulation abilities(if it was 280 or so each performance, if that means 70 each program of the 4 parts).

Not to mention filters there
"Filters: 2-pole LPF, 2-pole HPF, 2-pole BPF, 2-pole Band Reject, 4-pole LPF, 4-pole HPF, 4-pole BPF, 4-pole Band Reject, Multi Filter, MS-20 LPF, MS-20 HPF, Polysix"

And about Multi Filter alone:
"Standard multimode filters generate low-pass, high-pass, and band-pass filters simultaneously—but only let you use one of them at a time. The Multi Filter gives you access to all three filter modes simultaneously, in any combination, along with the dry input signal. You can choose from a large number of preset combinations, or create your own complex filter modes using the Manual controls."

It's a new mark in history of synths IMO. Assume there will be a number of versions of this with different keybeds and a module etc.

Some riot over that it does not allow to upload own samples, but better leave that to another product and not something half baked in Wavestate. It would inflict on storage space for presets now there and virtually unlimited in real terms. I would not do that firmware update, anyway, if it were to be. So much to explore as released, just check out the voice name list document. Will you lack timbres to start from, I wonder....

Daags
KVRAF
2237 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 am

lfm wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:18 pm
Some riot over that it does not allow to upload own samples, but better leave that to another product and not something half baked in Wavestate.
it's an instrument that uses sample sets in a fundamental way, but doesn't allow the user to add their own samples, nor replace the ones already there. a fifth of the way into the 21st century, that is a design decision that is hard to justify imo - there should hardly be any technical reasons why it isn't possible, and surely any commercial interests (i.e if they want to sell proprietary sample sets) can co-exist with the user loading their own.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
59156 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:12 am

Daags wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 am
lfm wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:18 pm
Some riot over that it does not allow to upload own samples, but better leave that to another product and not something half baked in Wavestate.
it's an instrument that uses sample sets in a fundamental way, but doesn't allow the user to add their own samples, nor replace the ones already there. a fifth of the way into the 21st century, that is a design decision that is hard to justify imo - there should hardly be any technical reasons why it isn't possible, and surely any commercial interests (i.e if they want to sell proprietary sample sets) can co-exist with the user loading their own.
see korg wavestate pro.

more keys plus user samples.

maybe...

Daags
KVRAF
2237 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:16 am

vurt wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:12 am
see korg wavestate pro.

more keys plus user samples.

maybe...
ya, I can see that happening ...
but do Korg have a history of that kind of thing ?

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vurt
addled muppet weed
59156 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:19 am

Daags wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:16 am
vurt wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:12 am
see korg wavestate pro.

more keys plus user samples.

maybe...
ya, I can see that happening ...
but do Korg have a history of that kind of thing ?
not that i know of.
just figured it was possible given the desire amongst potential users.
if i was a businessman, id certainly at least be thinking of it?
im not.

boombaxx
KVRist
287 posts since 10 Mar, 2005

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:01 pm

I distinctly remember that the price of this synth was 649 as a launch price. Now it,s 699 considering the original wavestation was 2600 still seems cheap. I think Wavestation 2 would have been a better name. Wavestate is the height of waves at sea, Wavestation 2 just seems better. Maybe to do with the station monikor. I have the original i use it all the time as a go to type synth. It,s a pity the controllers on the wavestate could not be used on the original. It,s biggest downfall seems logical for an update in the future. Since they are a bit similar :party:

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9474 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:04 pm

Daags wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 am
it's an instrument that uses sample sets in a fundamental way, but doesn't allow the user to add their own samples, nor replace the ones already there. a fifth of the way into the 21st century, that is a design decision that is hard to justify imo - there should hardly be any technical reasons why it isn't possible, and surely any commercial interests (i.e if they want to sell proprietary sample sets) can co-exist with the user loading their own.
Maybe if it was using simple sample content but that's not what it does, is it? It uses complex sequences of samples that blend from one to the next. I imagine they have to be prepared in a fairly specific way to facilitate that but it wouldn't stop your average idiot from trying to load an mp3 off the 'net and then complain that his Wavestate was broken because it wouldn't load it.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

lfm
KVRAF
5201 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:19 pm

Daags wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 am
lfm wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:18 pm
Some riot over that it does not allow to upload own samples, but better leave that to another product and not something half baked in Wavestate.
it's an instrument that uses sample sets in a fundamental way, but doesn't allow the user to add their own samples, nor replace the ones already there. a fifth of the way into the 21st century, that is a design decision that is hard to justify imo - there should hardly be any technical reasons why it isn't possible, and surely any commercial interests (i.e if they want to sell proprietary sample sets) can co-exist with the user loading their own.
One particular technical reason is the amount of memory needed for being a sampler. And the overhead of what you need in administration to put everything in it's place, root key and range, and just about what Akai MPC series has or so. And cpu heavy stretch algos to really sound good in realtime. And that's just for starters. It should be processed in any step in sequences too.

They really shove a rich variety of timbres in there - what is missing, really?
- it's a playground and amusement park already
- truly made to explore new soundscapes
- and offer 10 000+ preset storage space

- But I have this sampleset here that I want in there
- Didn't you already explore that before?
- What is new about using that again?
- You want to repeat what you already did?
- There isn't something really close to what you got in there?

To me complaining over what is not in Wavestate - is like complaining to Moog folks why it's not a Prophet too, or something.

You pick the tool for the job at hand.

You have a Martin and a Taylor - one does not do what the other do.
You have a Gibson and a Fender - and same thing.
And you have a variety of synths as well.

At the price tag Wavestate is a no-brainer for what it does.


Maybe there is a reason that Nord Wave 2 just upcoming is 3 x Wavestate in price. But it allow upload own samples with the editor they have. Some sequencing and stuff too.

To have everything in one unit it's probably Korg Kronos or something that offer if it was 9 synth engines inside - but 4 x Wavestate in price. Some folks really wanted a new workstation at NAMM now - being 9 years as they said since Kronos.

But there were a flood of stuff Korg released anyway.

kritikon
KVRAF
5124 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:08 pm

And you also have to look at the numbers who actually would use their own sample sets. In reality it's a tiny user base. I've been into samplers in the past and ultimately never much used my own samples. I had great ideas about recording doors slamming, banging spoons on various surfaces to make percussion sets...pretty much all I ever ended up doing was using stock 808/909 sample sets, occasionally accoustic drums, and really, when did I ever have access to anything to make a full set of musical sample bases...to do that you have to have octaves-worth of material, because it doesn't take long for pitched up and down samples to sound absolutely crap. I mean really crap.

Those arguing that Korg missed a trick for not allowing user samples are ultimately just looking for a reason to be offended. It's not a sampler, was never intended to be, and even the vast majority of deep Wavestation users don't really want it to be. Even the drums on the Wavestate sound like they have some power and real world use now...previously, yes I'd agree the WS's drumsets were rather more esoteric than real world useful. It's pretty obvious you can make even a doof-doof track with standard basses and filtered beeps on the new versio...you can use a whole set of pulses and saws with MS20 filters AND do film soundtracks with alien pads. Why do I need it to load my own amateur samples?

Samplers had their day, still occasionally have their uses, but ultimately proved themselves to be niche tools. Again most samplists proved they just wanted to play drum loops, drum hits and a few vocals but they eventually went back to synths to play synth sounds. Does anyone here know anyone who plays basses, leads, chords directly from a sampler with samples they made themselves? Nah. Korg could make a Wavestate be a sampler too, but for the 1% audience (probably not even that many), it's just not worth it. It took me 15 years probably to know a Wavestation inside out....likely very few will ever use a Wavestate to its full potential...it's just got so much inside it. I suspect I'll be dead before I'd run out of new sounds to get from a Wavestate. User sampling just isn't in my radar or the majority of other users. Waste of effort on behalf of Korg IMO and just won't happen, nor does it need to.

Daags
KVRAF
2237 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Re: Korg wavestate

Post Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:39 pm

kritikon wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:08 pm
Those arguing that Korg missed a trick for not allowing user samples are ultimately just looking for a reason to buy it.
fixed that for you.
kritikon wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:08 pm
It's not a sampler, was never intended to be, and even the vast majority of deep Wavestation users don't really want it to be.
huh ? ... I don't recall anyone asking for it to be a sampler ? ... seriously, you apologist fanatics really need to brush up on your comprehension before wasting time on replies. asking for an instrument that uses samples at its base level to allow users to supply their own samples is not - in any way shape or form - asking for it to be a sampler. I mean, the fact you think that's what people are requesting says more about you than it does about people making the feature request.

and the other idiot who went on about "durr, herpa derpa it uses 'complex' wave sequencing dontcha know. derp." ... no shit. but it isn't magic. it isn't even rocket science. it begins with an ordinary (set of) sample(s) and then processes that to allow the wave sequencing. the friggin Prophet VS allowed users to load their own samples for vector synthesis back in 1986, and that's the wavestation's daddy. even the wavestation itself had a 3rd party peripheral created by Double Dutch called the SAM-1 that allowed users to load their own samples (not just to the wavestation, also other korg instruments using PCM samples)

there were no technical reasons not to officially allow it then, and there sure as shit aren't any technical reasons not to allow it now in 2020.

the fact is, it was Korg's idea back then to sell expansion cards. and it is easier to sell expansion cards to users craving variety when you simultaneously don't allow them to add their own variety for free.

sadly, the reboot seems to have kept this commercial philosophy.

it isn't a 'zomfg this instrument is dogshit' level of criticism. but it is a legit shortcoming of the reboot, there is legit no good technical reason not to allow user samples - even at this pricepoint or very close to it - and it is a legit feature request. mentioning this shortcoming/feature request doesn't warrant the 'ugh, you just don't get it bro' in BOLD FONT ALL CAPS etc, nor 'ugh, it's like, too complicated you idiot' type responses.

and the 'korg know people would be too stupid to upload their own samples' argument is more nonsense. see: korg volca sample.

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