[Intro pricing extended] Available now: T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

[vurt]

i agree technologies should be discussed.
but not to have the discussion held over a company based on your idea of whats right.
yes they make grand claims, thats how companies get your attention.
but they also offer demos, if someone is willing to spend 150 without trying a demo, its on them. if they try the demo and like the product enough to spend the money, then thats their business.

in life not all things are equal, just because person a offers 10000 irs for free has no bearing on someone else selling one, for any price.
people have a choice to go with it or not.

[songshark]

Squids...thanks for so much more detail re: the Sunset Sound plugin.

Putting aside the claimed merits of the product...I'd just ask you to consider the reality that $150 is hardly a "measly" (your word) amount to many of us. Since you cited Brainworx and Waves -- I have TONS of their plugs and have paid between $5 and $25 dollars for most of them (buying new w/vouchers and/or dealer discount) and never paid more than $50. Perhaps the closest analogy to Sunset Sound you cite are Waves Abbey Road Plates/Chamber which I paid in the low $20's for each (as I recall there are 3 different plates modeled on the Plates -- plus some additional AR tape delays in the Chambers.)

Which is all to say -- that if Sunset Sound were priced around $50, I would be far more interested, excited and curious. In my world $150 would be considered a HUGE amount to spend on one effects plugin -- especially given all the alternatives for reverb and ambience I already have! I'm not questioning IK's right to charge what they deem best for their business -- nor am I questioning the work that went into Sunset Sound or its absolute worth -- I'm only challenging your assertions and assumptions re: the relative value of $150 in today's plugin market. I think it was your phrase "measley $150" that caught my attention and made me realize we are on a different page re: pricing. (FYI -- one of the things I always loved as customer of EZSounds was how many products were available for $50 or far less.)

As for the Authorization manager -- I can't remember if that is the download that has all the demos on it -- but I guess you really haven't been around much (either here or on GS) in recent years if you are not aware of the MANY regular complaints about having to download and install the entire IK/T-racks catalogue of plugins when you buy or demo one. No, this certainly is not a dealbreaker (for me at least) -- and certainly not a reason to be furious and start insulting anyone -- but I do feel you are trivializing something that really is considered to be a big nuisance by many of us and which has been complained about regularly and FREQUENTLY -- which IK chooses not to address.

And speaking of "not addressing" -- since you spent a paragraph raving about Lurssen (and were one of those responsible) -- and I'm speaking now as a huge fan of that plugin myself (and thank you for your role in it!) -- I'd sure love to hear your take on why there cannot be a simple bypass volume match -- or output level control -- on that plugin -- which SO many of us have BEGGED FOR (see threads here and GS) -- over the years. I don't mean for this thread to devolve into a features request debate on every IK product -- but this in particular strikes so many of us as such an obvious and frustrating omission on an otherwise stellar plugin -- which COULD be so SIMPLY REMEDIED. With you being someone behind Lurssen and who apparently uses it yourself -- I would love to hear your thinking as to why we can't get a simple way to hear what it's doing without the big level jump it puts in. And please explain to me the PURPOSE of the current "process bypass" switch -- which to me has such a huge level jump as to be completely useless. I hope you will respond to this!

BTW, it's good to see you back here. I enjoy your posts -- you write articulately and with passion.

[Symphony Sid]

Wow, first they had to call in the cavalry with another rep to help Pete and now a clearly less than unbiased dev of a sounds company that hasn't put out a product of any value in years. The lengths that IK will go to defend a bunch of overpriced IR's. Yeah I know, I deserved to be banned too, right??

[Squids]

@jens For quoting user impressions about IKM's autorization procedure? Are you trying to flatter Squids / Peter hoping to receive a free license in return?

No he'd just be doing his job which is to try to keep this place friendly and cool. If you're not aware how obnoxious and offensive you are in what many people would consider "trolling" that doesn't mean that everyone else who is aware of it has to put up with it. It seems like your whole goal is to bash the company and its products. You're not even genuinely interested in it. But, somehow you think first amendment rights give you the freedom to say anything you want without consequences on forums... yet surprise surprise you get banned from Gearslutz and now potentially here too. Well, this will either make you think about what you do that causes it or you'll think everyone's kissing ass to the manufacturers and it must be some kind of conspiracy against you or something. But, no, man it's because of the way you communicate and don't seem to listen very well or respect others who ARE serious about wanting to know what's behind the products this web site is about. Like I said, if I was a mod here (and I am in my own forum here but not the site) you'd already be gone or at least given one last warning before the virtual eject button is pressed.

I have to say, though, it's a shame because it seems like there's a part of you that has some intelligent interesting things to share from your perspective. But, you mix it in with all this negativity and drama. Even quoting people who say they can't handle a 1.5 gb download of an app that works with ALL IK authorizations quite well from most people's experiences. That's if you are even thinking about actually buying any IK software products. If all you want is the free one that's offered or demos and can't handle downloading the auth manager then I guess these products aren't for you anyway. You can quote a handful of people and claim I'm "out of touch with the user base" all you want but what I DO know is that IK has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of users who DO use the products and DON'T complain. If it was an epidemic like you seem to think it is the company wouldn't be thriving for decades. So, really, we don't need to hear your negative offensive opinions and incorrect assumptions... and maybe we won't because you can't seem to help yourself and the mods seem already close to pressing the button on you. Like I said, though, it would be a shame. Let's see if you can chill out. If I were you I would at least go find another thread where you can play nice. This one is not doing you any good here.

[Squids]

Wow, first they had to call in the cavalry with another rep to help Pete and now a clearly less than unbiased dev of a sounds company that hasn't put out a product of any value in years. The lengths that IK will go to defend a bunch of overpriced IR's. Yeah I know, I deserved to be banned too, right??

No, but you're wrong. You deserve to look how you look which speaks for itself. By the way, with my sound development company I haven't even put out a product in years at all so how do you place a value on that? haha. Shows how little you know. And I'm not a "rep". I work for myself and I'm just hear to talk about a new product I was involved in because there are people who do get it. I can see you don't. Probably just looking for attention like trolls do. I'll keep this response brief. You don't deserve a ban but you don't deserve a response more than this either.

[Symphony Sid]

I thought it was defunct, but tried not to rub your face in it. So much for manners, eh?? Didn't you're now defunct sound company have close business dealings with IK when it was around?? I'd say that prevents you from having an even remotely non-biased opinion of IK.

[Squids]

i agree technologies should be discussed.
but not to have the discussion held over a company based on your idea of whats right.
yes they make grand claims, thats how companies get your attention.
but they also offer demos, if someone is willing to spend 150 without trying a demo, its on them. if they try the demo and like the product enough to spend the money, then thats their business.

in life not all things are equal, just because person a offers 10000 irs for free has no bearing on someone else selling one, for any price.
people have a choice to go with it or not.

Very good point Vurt! Plus, this is more than just some IRs anyway. I can explain to everyone until I'm blue in the face (Squids are already a bit blue from the ink haha) but you're right in that the only thing that REALLY matters is how it sounds in your music. So, at the very least, one can try it and decide for themselves! That's really the long and short of it. If just a bunch of IRs is all anyone needs that's cool. Thousands of them or not, sure why not? BUT, they aren't going to give the exact sound of THIS plug-in so... you either want these flavors and features or you don't! Aaaaand if one DOESN'T? Then why would they even be participating in this conversation? That's what baffles me.

[XorXisT]

According to Waves Marketing Department, now I "own" a Fazioli F228 and an Abbey Road chamber.

I can play the same piano featured in a Adele album through an Abbey Road chamber from England!

WOWZERS!

FYI, the previous owner of the piano was some guy named Freddie Mercury.

And all this for a whooping... wait for it... USD $28.00!

Nope, not a typo, it is USD $28.00.

Waves Marketing worked like a charm!

IKM Marketing on the other hand...

[Squids]

I thought it was defunct, but tried not to rub your face in it. So much for manners, eh?? Didn't you're now defunct sound company have close business dealings with IK when it was around?? I'd say that prevents you from having an even remotely non-biased opinion of IK.

Ughhh man I really don't have time for trolling questions like this. Let me be brief because I do have things to do and I wanted to answer legit questions which I will do later. Short version is this. It's not a defunct sound company we still sell the hundreds of libraries that have been made for years but I also have a music career so I put sound development on hiatus for awhile until this year where I'll be releasing all of the archives I've collected and they are very cool. This includes libraries I've used in productions but haven't yet released... and they will be in ST4 as well as Kontakt and other formats.

That said, just to be perfectly clear (as I have been), I NEVER SAID I HAVE A NON-BAISED OPINION ABOUT IK. My brother runs the US office and I have been a partner with IK for decades. But, I'm not a rep or an employee sent here to do anything. That's not my job. It IS Peter's job. I'm here now because I saw this thread and I was part of the making of this product and have something useful to offer. Plus I'll participate more now that I'm back into it... however, I'd rather spend my time answering serious people who are friendly and want to know things that I CAN answer from my perspective. Ok? (I don't care if it's ok that was rhetorical). Next!

PS. I'll likely ignore trolling posts out of respect to my own time and anyone reading. We don't need that filler. There's some good discussion to be had here and info to be shared.

[Squids]

According to Waves Marketing Department, now I "own" a Fazioli F228 and an Abbey Road chamber.

I can play the same piano featured in a Adele album through an Abbey Road chamber from England!

WOWZERS!

FYI, the previous owner of the piano was some guy named Freddie Mercury.

And all this for a whooping... wait for it... USD $28.00!

Nope, not a typo, it is USD $28.00.

Waves Marketing worked like a charm!

IKM Marketing on the other hand...

That's not marketing that's a sale and good for you! I bought those too. But, here's one thing to consider. They are completely different products. So, by all means, get those products when they're on sale from Waves or IK or whoever! Lots of companies do great sales! Usually not on brand new products and if you want them now instead of waiting hoping they'll be on sale then... that's up to each person.

[Squids]

Squids...thanks for so much more detail re: the Sunset Sound plugin.

Putting aside the claimed merits of the product...I'd just ask you to consider the reality that $150 is hardly a "measly" (your word) amount to many of us. Since you cited Brainworx and Waves -- I have TONS of their plugs and have paid between $5 and $25 dollars for most of them (buying new w/vouchers and/or dealer discount) and never paid more than $50. Perhaps the closest analogy to Sunset Sound you cite are Waves Abbey Road Plates/Chamber which I paid in the low $20's for each (as I recall there are 3 different plates modeled on the Plates -- plus some additional AR tape delays in the Chambers.)

Which is all to say -- that if Sunset Sound were priced around $50, I would be far more interested, excited and curious. In my world $150 would be considered a HUGE amount to spend on one effects plugin -- especially given all the alternatives for reverb and ambience I already have! I'm not questioning IK's right to charge what they deem best for their business -- nor am I questioning the work that went into Sunset Sound or its absolute worth -- I'm only challenging your assertions and assumptions re: the relative value of $150 in today's plugin market. I think it was your phrase "measley $150" that caught my attention and made me realize we are on a different page re: pricing. (FYI -- one of the things I always loved as customer of EZSounds was how many products were available for $50 or far less.)

As for the Authorization manager -- I can't remember if that is the download that has all the demos on it -- but I guess you really haven't been around much (either here or on GS) in recent years if you are not aware of the MANY regular complaints about having to download and install the entire IK/T-racks catalogue of plugins when you buy or demo one. No, this certainly is not a dealbreaker (for me at least) -- and certainly not a reason to be furious and start insulting anyone -- but I do feel you are trivializing something that really is considered to be a big nuisance by many of us and which has been complained about regularly and FREQUENTLY -- which IK chooses not to address.

And speaking of "not addressing" -- since you spent a paragraph raving about Lurssen (and were one of those responsible) -- and I'm speaking now as a huge fan of that plugin myself (and thank you for your role in it!) -- I'd sure love to hear your take on why there cannot be a simple bypass volume match -- or output level control -- on that plugin -- which SO many of us have BEGGED FOR (see threads here and GS) -- over the years. I don't mean for this thread to devolve into a features request debate on every IK product -- but this in particular strikes so many of us as such an obvious and frustrating omission on an otherwise stellar plugin -- which COULD be so SIMPLY REMEDIED. With you being someone behind Lurssen and who apparently uses it yourself -- I would love to hear your thinking as to why we can't get a simple way to hear what it's doing without the big level jump it puts in. And please explain to me the PURPOSE of the current "process bypass" switch -- which to me has such a huge level jump as to be completely useless. I hope you will respond to this!

BTW, it's good to see you back here. I enjoy your posts -- you write articulately and with passion.

I'm being rushed out the door because it's "Super Bowl Sunday" here (and actually I don't even care that much for football). But, I promise to answer this when I can later... and I'll try to ignore the distracting negative posts so I can get to these. Thanks.

[Symphony Sid]

I thought it was defunct, but tried not to rub your face in it. So much for manners, eh?? Didn't you're now defunct sound company have close business dealings with IK when it was around?? I'd say that prevents you from having an even remotely non-biased opinion of IK.

That said, just to be perfectly clear (as I have been), I NEVER SAID I HAVE A NON-BAISED OPINION ABOUT IK. My brother runs the US office and I have been a partner with IK for decades. But, I'm not a rep or an employee sent here to do anything. That's not my job. It IS Peter's job. I'm here now because I saw this thread and I was part of the making of this product and have something useful to offer. Plus I'll participate more now that I'm back into it... however, I'd rather spend my time answering serious people who are friendly and want to know things that I CAN answer from my perspective. Ok? (I don't care if it's ok that was rhetorical). Next!

PS. I'll likely ignore trolling posts out of respect to my own time and anyone reading. We don't need that filler. There's some good discussion to be had here and info to be shared.

You're wrong. Anyone with ties to the company has zero objectivity and has even less to contribute to this discussion than the opinions that you seek to diminish by labeling them as trolls. Whatever gets you through the night...

[Obsolete236871]

@Squids

I hope you understand that I have nothing against you personally, in fact overall you seem like a cool guy. My comments were purely about the product that's discussed here. Enjoy your Super Bowl Night. I will try to stay away from the discussion temporarily, so that others can chime in and present their perspective. I'm sure the reverb sounds good, but after examining all the available facts, still have to believe that it's massively overpriced for what it is and does. But those are just my 2 cents..

[fese]

first world problems... plugins are too expensive.
I find it rather pricey, too, but I don’t make a fuss about it.
/bye

[Hink]

There should be no differentiation between companies or individuals on KVR,so why should the mods step in and help out here when this has been an interesting debate,with both sides bringing their agendas to the fore...

Debate's fine. Abusive behavior isn't. When someone reports a post to the mods, we have to decide which side of that line we think that post is on (often a single post, or series of posts, straddle the line) while trying to be fair to everyone involved. It's a judgement call. I think all KVR mods want to promote free exchange of ideas, but discourage that exchange from going nuclear.

That's all I have to say here. Be good to each other, 'kay?

this is what Meffy said and I agree, free exchange of idea does not include banning someone because they dont like a company or a product...that could appear to be showing favor to the companies.

Squids I read what you wrote about 20 years here and how it isn't a free exchange anymore and I cry foul on that one sir, I could type my fingers bloody to the stump showing examples of how us mods work to keep that flowing but even more important how the members keep things flowing...but I leave it at this...a few months ago a lot of people were calling for bans in massive x threads...now we have at least two that have been going very smoothly and not because we are tyrants banning either.

Now let's get back on topic because if this continues you might see a lock until it has a chance to cool down