[Intro pricing extended] Available now: T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

[rj0]

The reason I post here in this thread by my own free will is because I was involved in the making of this plug-in

Good to know.

I certainly do know more about the product than you do. It's not even out! Haha.

Yes, that's why people are asking.

Ok, brevity is not my strong suit I admit so I'll just bullet point answers to your question as to what makes it "more than just some IRs"

• It's a convolution reverb plug-in that plays those IRs (and more)

More IRs, as in included, or future? Doesn't appear to be expandable. Or more than just "plays", as in the extra controls?

• It includes modeling of the equipment at Sunset Sound that is part of the character of the sound as you'd hear those ambiences in the studio

Yes, we see those listed.

• It includes a 360 graphic representation of the room

Ahh, pictures.

• It has additional sound shaping features/parameters in the plug-in

Yes, we can see the extra controls on the panel. Look fairly standard.

• The way all the audio and visual content was obtained and experimented with and tested is much deeper because of the actual official cooperation of the studio. Different mics, mic positions, A/B tests with music recorded there and not recorded there, multiple IR captures and other things under the hood that aren't shared publicly (not all aspects of every product from every company is made public... plus I'm not the actual developer so some things I couldn't even explain properly anyway).

So the selection and creation of the IRs was professionally and painstakingly done. Good to hear.

[Squids]

These days I spend half my time in the musical instrument industry world and half my time making music and performing live (in fact, coming up next month I'll be performing with my band along side Yes, Steve Hackett and others on Cruise To The Edge). I'm in the Progressive Rock genre ...

So, does your band have albums recorded or is the one you're currently working of your band? You have stimulated my curiosity (plus prog rock is my preferred genre of "pop" music).

The one I mentioned where Sunset Sound Studio Reverb and the studio is a big part of the album is a female singer's solo album which hasn't been announced yet but I did manage to get permission to use one of her songs for demos. That album I would say is more classic rock/alt rock and cosmic blues like Janis but in a modern way.

My solo albums are more in the area stylistically of Pink Floyd, Beatles, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson... and I bring in a lot of special guests who have played with some of these bands. I also have a band with Phil Collins' son Simon Collins called "Dimensionaut" which I play keys, co-wrote/produced with Nick Davis (Genesis' producer/engineer) mixing. Last year I laughed a side project from that band called "In Continuum" which was an ensemble cast effort with multiple singers including Jon Davison from Yes and Michael Sadler of Saga with Marco Minnemann and Nick D'Virgilio on drums, Steve Hackett of Genesis and Steve Rothery of Marillion guesting on guitar with musicians from Porcupine Tree and other bands participating. This stuff gets covered in the Prog Magazines and web sites so you can Google Dave Kerzner (my real name) and/or any of the bands I mentioned and a bunch of stuff will come up. Or you can check out videos on the associated youtube channels or http:/ and all of the music can be heard and read about on my bandcamp page: http://sonicelements.bandcamp.com (and on Amazon, Apple etc. plus Burning Shed and other outlets for this style of music).

[Squids]

The reason I post here in this thread by my own free will is because I was involved in the making of this plug-in

Good to know.

I certainly do know more about the product than you do. It's not even out! Haha.

Yes, that's why people are asking.

Ok, brevity is not my strong suit I admit so I'll just bullet point answers to your question as to what makes it "more than just some IRs"

• It's a convolution reverb plug-in that plays those IRs (and more)

More IRs, as in included, or future? Doesn't appear to be expandable. Or more than just "plays", as in the extra controls?

• It includes modeling of the equipment at Sunset Sound that is part of the character of the sound as you'd hear those ambiences in the studio

Yes, we see those listed.

• It includes a 360 graphic representation of the room

Ahh, pictures.

• It has additional sound shaping features/parameters in the plug-in

Yes, we can see the extra controls on the panel. Look fairly standard.

• The way all the audio and visual content was obtained and experimented with and tested is much deeper because of the actual official cooperation of the studio. Different mics, mic positions, A/B tests with music recorded there and not recorded there, multiple IR captures and other things under the hood that aren't shared publicly (not all aspects of every product from every company is made public... plus I'm not the actual developer so some things I couldn't even explain properly anyway).

So the selection and creation of the IRs was professionally and painstakingly done. Good to hear.

I don't think it's intended to be expandable. But, since the question I was answering was about what it is beyond a bunch of IR, the fact that it is a reverb plug-in that plays those IR is one of the things that's more than just IR alone. I gotta be honest with you, the only convolution reverb plug-in I use personally besides this is Altiverb. I imagine there are inexpensive or maybe even free convolution plug-ins out there. There's all kinds of inexpensive stuff to be had. But, from my experience the reverb plug-in itself DOES have a value (and with it being Altiverb I can say that it does cost some money). So, that does have a value BUT... yes overall out of all the things it has, the most valuable aspect of all IS the way it was done and the only way it could have been done like this is with full cooperation of the studio. When you want to experiment and try all sorts of things to really nail it that takes a ton of time and you have to work around bookings if it's an active studio. I was there for a lot of it so I know. But, also, I gotta say while it WAS painstaking it was also fascinating and educational. I've never been able to appreciate the nuances of acoustic spaces before as much as I have hearing say my own music through each and every chamber and plate in an iconic studio. It made me want to record and mix there but the reality is that I don't quite have that kind of budget being an independent artist and producer. Many of us don't. So, that's why it's great to have this plug-in and I'm already using the beta version quite a bit.

Oh and hey... don't knock the pictures! That part is fun. I like getting a 360 visual of the space. I think it's a great reminder too that we're talking about a piece of something that was in physical reality. Otherwise it'd be too easy for some people to not even realize what say a "Chamber" really is. If there were no pictures it might just look like "a preset on a reverb". But, when you see how it's an echoey room with a speaker and a mic in it you realize... this is how records were made in the 60s before they had digital reverbs and oddly enough it STILL sounds great! Just like Hammonds do and Mellotrons and Vox organs and Vox amps...

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Just to clarify a few points:

There are my different IR in use in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb - far more than 12, and in combination with the preamp emulations of their consoles (including a customized API console). Even if you calculate $ per IR, it is not very expensive - especially for the process as Squids described where we didn't just pop in and take a couple of measurements and run. That's not how we do things and definitely would not have been OK with the owners of Sunset Sound.

We worked with closely with the in-house engineer and with the owner of Sunset Sound, and we reviewed the session datasheets from past sessions including those from legendary recordings, and recorded in positions and dampening of those recordings. As an example our version of Studio 2 gives the position from the recording of some of these sessions (in addition to the common tracking positions).



We also provide all of the chambers, rooms, iso booths and mechanical reverbs in use at Sunset Sound in one plug in vs the price of what others charge for, for example, only chambers. All of this in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb with different options and realism in a true stereo plugin.

Each IR has been recorded via the mics used in the correlating studio and using that studio's console:

Studio 1: Customized API with vintage Neumann U87
Studio 2: Neve 8088 with vintage Neumann M49
Studio 3: Customized API / Demedio console with vintage Neumann U87
All plates and springs thru a customized API/Demedio

On top of using that amazing gear we added the modeled preamp of each studio. So, when you're using something from studio 1 or 3 the correct preamp activates, when using Studio 2 it
activates the preamps from that studio's equipment.

This way, you do not only get the realism of the room, but the realism of the preamp recording that room.

Each room has options which were discussed and agreed upon with the in-house engineer and the owner of Sunset Sound in order to give the best and most exact sound of their legendary studio - when working with these experts who are passionate about the sound of something bearing their name there is no room to mess around. Though the kind of mess below was allowed there:



We went for realism over add-ons: For T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb we didn’t try to fake the sound of mic movement inside the chambers of example, or into the unused/unrealistic positions in the rooms, since it is something that simply doesn’t happen when recording at Sunset Sound. Instead, we captured positions that are actually used by seasoned engineers in these rooms in real and we did deep research into the history of the amazing and varied studio recordings done at this amazing studio to capture what it is really in use and realistic. All in agreement and with the help of the people who work in and own Sunset Sound.

I hope that clears up why folks here might be interested in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

[vurt]

ot but what is the singer doing with his crotxh?
did you get an ir of that?

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

ot but what is the singer doing with his crotxh?
did you get an ir of that?

It is typically best not to delve too deeply into what David Lee Roth does with his crotch.

[vurt]

is that roth?
i did not recognise him at all.

forgot he once wasnt a caricature of a rock star

i suppose evh should have bern a big clue

[mcbpete]

There are many different IR in use in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb - far more than 12 ..... Each IR has been recorded via the mics used in the correlating studio and using that studio's console:

Studio 1: Customized API with vintage Neumann U87
Studio 2: Neve 8088 with vintage Neumann M49
Studio 3: Customized API / Demedio console with vintage Neumann U87

I'm still not quite getting the maths here - 3 Studios with 4 reverb types for each studio makes 12. Are there different IRs for discrete input gain levels and/or filter settings ? Does the 'option' page have additional settings that'll choose a different batch of IRs ?

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

There are many different IR in use in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb - far more than 12 ..... Each IR has been recorded via the mics used in the correlating studio and using that studio's console:

Studio 1: Customized API with vintage Neumann U87
Studio 2: Neve 8088 with vintage Neumann M49
Studio 3: Customized API / Demedio console with vintage Neumann U87

I'm I still not quite getting the maths here - 3 Studios with 4 reverb types for each studio makes 12. Are there different IRs for discrete input gain levels and/or filter settings ? Does the 'option' page have additional settings that'll choose a different batch of IRs ?

I cover reasons for this in the rest of the message. The multiple positions and measurements taken based on standard recordings plus the classic recordings that were made there would be a big part of that. There's more going on under the hood than the simple math people are using to assume there are only 12 IRs which we've explained is clearly incorrect.

Edit - plus we have mentioned the iso rooms, etc. I don't know what else I can say other than what I have said about many more IR (and Squids has said) plus the other obvious valuable offerings in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb. If it isn't for you, fine, but continuing to perpetuate false claims seems a bit... well, people can fill in the blanks there.

[mcbpete]

OK so there'll be mic positions (plural) for each Studio & Reverb type ?

[rj0]

Thanks Squids, Peter,

I've long appreciated IK, eSoundz, and SonicReality, and that goes back a good decade or so.

Over the years (many), I've been deeply involved on the developer side of products (but, sadly, not audio), so I'm incredibly appreciative of what it takes to put out a new product, and I'm amazed and appreciative of what new developers (synth, FX, etc.) go through to introduce new products (especially their first product, as new/fledgling companies).

I also fully understand and appreciate the B, S, & T of developing, testing, marketing, selling, and supporting those new products. (At one time I could lean out of my cubicle and shake the hand of my good friend and marketing manager for our (non-audio) product. I sat in on many product meetings with him, sales, product management, product testing, product support, etc., and learned to respect honesty and integrity in all of those areas.) I worked with all of those guys daily, for years.

Smoke and mirrors, hand waving, and vague statements have never gone over well with customers, in any product area. Be straight-forward and honest with customers, and they will return the favor (helping the company and its' products move forward).

As a customer and developer, that is the standard that I've come to know and respect.

edit: Yes, it's important to see this from a consumer point of view as well. Some of us customers have pretty deep insights into when companies are being straight with us, or not so straight. Take care.

[Squids]

OK so there'll be mic positions (plural) for each Studio & Reverb type ?

Let's wait and see when it's released exactly what it has. I could actually answer this question but I'm working with a beta version so I don't want to say it does or doesn't have something that's visible to the user yet until it's released. I remember one time I said something about SampleTank IOS having a feature that ended up not being in the final and rightfully I got slapped with a wet squid. I know some of you are anxious to know some of these things and you will very soon... and be able to hear how it sounds with music (and your music) which ultimately is the most important feature.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

But we don't have to wait to state that there are absolutely far more than a dozen IR in T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb. MANY more.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Thanks Squids, Peter,

I've long appreciated IK, eSoundz, and SonicReality, and that goes back a good decade or so.

Over the years (many), I've been deeply involved on the developer side of products (but, sadly, not audio), so I'm incredibly appreciative of what it takes to put out a new product, and I'm amazed and appreciative of what new developers (synth, FX, etc.) go through to introduce new products (especially their first product, as new/fledgling companies).

I also fully understand and appreciate the B, S, & T of developing, testing, marketing, selling, and supporting those new products. (At one time I could lean out of my cubicle and shake the hand of my good friend and marketing manager for our (non-audio) product. I sat in on many product meetings with him, sales, product management, product testing, product support, etc., and learned to respect honest and integrity in all of those areas.) I worked with all of those guys daily, for years.

As a customer or developer, that is the standard that I've come to know and respect.

Thank you for the kind words and understanding of what goes into something like T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb.

We definitely hold ourselves to a high standard with what we offer with software like this, and we are held to a high standard by people like Paul (owner of Sunset Sound) and this high standard is likely why we work directly with people like Paul and we look forward to doing more.

Edit - see the quote here for the original message, but also know we're being as transparent as one would expect. Anybody who needs a deeper dive into our technology and how we build world-class products like we've been doing for 20+ can apply and get into the inner circle

[Squids]

Thanks Squids, Peter,

I've long appreciated IK, eSoundz, and SonicReality, and that goes back a good decade or so.

Over the years (many), I've been deeply involved on the developer side of products (but, sadly, not audio), so I'm incredibly appreciative of what it takes to put out a new product, and I'm amazed and appreciative of what new developers (synth, FX, etc.) go through to introduce new products (especially their first product, as new/fledgling companies).

I also fully understand and appreciate the B, S, & T of developing, testing, marketing, selling, and supporting those new products. (At one time I could lean out of my cubicle and shake the hand of my good friend and marketing manager for our (non-audio) product. I sat in on many product meetings with him, sales, product management, product testing, product support, etc., and learned to respect honest and integrity in all of those areas.) I worked with all of those guys daily, for years.

As a customer or developer, that is the standard that I've come to know and respect.

Thank you! I'm glad you said that because sometimes it's a good reminder that whether or not someone cares about a product being officially partnered with a famous studio (or musician or brand), or whether it's a mainstream commercial release vs. an Indy or hobbyist's release (or anywhere in between), at the very least one should understand that there's a whole lot that goes into it... and all of that investment of engineer's time, studio time, lawyers, business people, marketing and sales teams, graphics departments, the coders, the testers, demo makers, social media ppl (like Peter), video crew, artists, international teams who translate the info and so on... those are costs of doing business that all add up. The products made have to recoup those expenses and be profitable. Some companies can do crazy sales and still recoup and be profitable for their own reasons... perhaps the expenses are lower, the global team is smaller or who knows? I don't know. I only know that IK is a company with over 100 people globally and even though I kind of operate on my own in and around that because I spend half my time making music and performing, I do have a very good idea of what went into Sunset Sound. Even just the elaborate demos I've been preparing I've been working with their house engineer almost everyday for the past two weeks... and that's just to show how the plug-in compares to the real thing!

Although, for me, it's a labor of love. It's not even an SR product (it's not like a Sonic Reality sample library where I get a royalty per sale). But, if/when any of my suggested products ARE successful (like LMC I mentioned and this one and the new Z-Tone DI) then certainly that gives me more cred at IK for any other ideas I may suggest... and again the products I suggest are simply products I personally want to exist for my music productions since that's what I do the most these days. And I gotta say... it's a lot of fun having something created that you know you can use! That's why I've sent a bunch of pedals to be modeled by IK over the years (even though I still have a list of ones I would love to have). So, that's where I'm coming from on this side of things... and on the sample library side I also usually aim to capture things I would want such as a sample session of Nick Mason with Alan Parsons engineer on a TG12345 console (which I did with them and it was awesome). That's coming to ST4 soon btw. This year finally. I'm catching up.