Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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vurt
addled muppet weed
65128 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am

perfumer wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:38 pm

It's f**king COMPLICATED! But it's the best band ever!
10 points.

maybe not the best, hard to pinpoint a single band.
but definitely up there :tu:

Acid Mitch
KVRAF
2039 posts since 5 Oct, 2005

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:58 am

I use multiple daws because they keep leaving me.

machinesworking
KVRAF
2327 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:25 am

gminorcoles wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:27 am
machinesworking wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm
Anyway there's a start for your consideration. Hope that helps.
Most helpful, detailed opinion. Best post I have seen in a while. It can be hard to find DP users compared to Cubase which is another thing that makes me cautious about dp. Not that popular compared to Cubase which, aside from the absolute merits of each tool, can carry some risk.

I appreciate your time.
DP was one of the top 4 DAWs in 2000, but they went with having plug ins develop for their own format, MAS, and obviously VST and RTAS won out. Then Apple bought Logic, which sunk DPs popularity since conventional wisdom was that Logic was the de facto DAW for OS X. This coupled with a slow transition to OS X, and it's no wonder MOTU developed a Windows version of DP.

I'm admittedly attracted to underdogs, especially if there's some advantages to that. Clearly Cubase has better 3rd party support, but MOTU have obviously spent a lot of effort over the years developing DP, so I doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon.

Since this thread is about multiple DAWs it's safe to say I own a few, but barring me getting super excited about Bitwig and it's Push2 support thanks to Möss, I'm always back in DP at some point. It's in a transition stage right now because of the new Clips feature, but even with that in mind, it's just easy for me to navigate compared to Bitwig etc.
Honestly better than Clips in some ways is the Run Command feature. This is ridiculously cool and all DAWs should steal it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcw-4EZklcQ

It's not clear in the video but you type until the command appears and hit return to run it. You pretty much don't have to learn key commands if you don't want to. just get used to DP's naming conventions and you're good.

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9778 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:12 pm

BezO wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 am
Being a Mac user,
There is your first mistake. Is being a Mac user more important than finding the best tools for the job? I always look for the best tools first, then let those choices dictate which OS I use.
Stereo panning is not even available in Studio One. You have to use a plugin. Crazy!
Surely you've just not found where it is? How can they think it's optional? That's nuts!
machinesworking wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:05 pm
At some point you have to commit.
For me that's the day the label sends the masters off to the CD manufacturer. Up until that point, I want to be free to change anything at all.
System resource, wise habits from back in the day have stuck by me, and honestly the times I didn't render all tracks to audio before mix down and mastering have ended with various computer configurations and failures resulting in going back to projects from 20 years ago where X plug in no longer exists etc.
But your 20 year old stems do? I don't have the vocal tracks from either of our first two albums but I have all the Orion projects.
I actually think committing is a good thing, of course you always have the track in (in my case) Ableton to go back to if you're really convinced that a sharper envelope will help a particular synth stand out etc. In a way it's a good thing it makes it that much harder because it forces you to think about whether or not that's truly the problem.
No, it just helps you believe that it's not. My attitude is why add an effect if I can just tweak an envelope, where you feel the need to justify going back. It's a good example of why it's a bad idea. i.e. I'll try the envelope tweak first, because it's easier, but if it doesn't work I can always try an effect. It puts more options at my fingertips.
I wanted to remove a hi hat line on the break on the 1st and 3rd beats, this was possible in 3 or less moves with the search function in DP, but a matter of selecting and editing a hundred individual beats in Live.
Couldn't you have made a shorter clip, edited that and then propagated it back across the timeline? That's what I'd do in Cubase. I'd never even think to look for a search function.
I'm sure there are features of Orion you will miss editing wise
Yes, things that surprised me to discover aren't standard in any other host, like a simple left-click to add a note in a piano roll, right-click to delete and the ability to remember the length of the last created note and use it for all subsequent notes.
I would bet there are a lot more new ones in Cubase that will eventually be of great use to you
Not so far but I work very hard to keep things uncomplicated so situations like that may never come up.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Vacuum Pro, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Union, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

machinesworking
KVRAF
2327 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:16 pm

BONES wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:12 pm
But your 20 year old stems do? I don't have the vocal tracks from either of our first two albums but I have all the Orion projects.
Yes, I have hard disks with stems from 20 years ago, but opening some interesting but unfinished project in Logic recently and certain Logic EXS sampler sounds are lost, certain Pluggo plug ins that have been discontinued for 10+ years are gone. I should have committed the tracks to audio.

There are plenty of examples like this as to why I like committing tracks to audio. The truth is nothing about it makes the original project go away, and like a lot of people I'm guilty of not committing in general, at some point you have to consider a song done. :shrug:
Yes, things that surprised me to discover aren't standard in any other host, like a simple left-click to add a note in a piano roll, right-click to delete and the ability to remember the length of the last created note and use it for all subsequent notes.
Almost every DAW I've ever used is double click to add a note without selecting a pencil tool, select and Delete key to delete, and they remember the last note length you selected. Geist has right click as delete, but most DAWs use right click for contextual menus.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9778 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:24 pm

The trick to Orion's piano roll is that the pencil tool is the default and you use CTRL to make a marquee selection. It's such a simple thing but it saves so much time over the course of a session. When nothing is selected, then everything you do affects the whole pattern, no need for a "select all" hotkey.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Vacuum Pro, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Union, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

machinesworking
KVRAF
2327 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:53 pm

BONES wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:24 pm
The trick to Orion's piano roll is that the pencil tool is the default and you use CTRL to make a marquee selection. It's such a simple thing but it saves so much time over the course of a session. When nothing is selected, then everything you do affects the whole pattern, no need for a "select all" hotkey.
I hear you, I switched back to DP from Logic because Logic 8 started screwing up IMO at the time, Logic's superior mouse shortcuts for zoom, tools, and selections in general.

User avatar
BezO
KVRist
247 posts since 19 Jul, 2005

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:38 am

BONES wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:12 pm
BezO wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 am
Being a Mac user,
There is your first mistake. Is being a Mac user more important than finding the best tools for the job? I always look for the best tools first, then let those choices dictate which OS I use.
Stereo panning is not even available in Studio One. You have to use a plugin. Crazy!
Surely you've just not found where it is? How can they think it's optional? That's nuts!
This place is nuts!

I find Macs to be the best tool for making Music. They've been great for creating in Pro Tools, Logic and Studio One. Not really sure what the hell you're talking about other than thinking I chose Logic ONLY because I use a Mac. Did you read beyond where you clipped my quote, or were you only looking for something to speak down on? Logic was great for what I needed at the time I selected it.

As for stereo panning, look up the difference between balancing and panning, then realize S1 only has a stereo balancer, not a panner. This creates the need to use the plugin if you actually want to pan.
The groove baby, the groove...

felis
KVRian
630 posts since 25 Jul, 2009

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:59 am

I own multiple DAW's,

but I only actually use Cubase.

AlesisVi61
KVRist
411 posts since 17 Sep, 2014

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:13 am

Daags wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:47 am
I use multiple DAWs because they have different strengths, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So for each 'link' in my production 'chain', I use whatever DAW is best at that particular task.

the beauty of VST plugins is they work in whatever DAW is the 'link' I'm working on at any given time. All on the same computer, using wav & midi files. It's not like you have to lug 14 lbs of tape from the studio down stairs, up ten flights of stairs, convert it to a different tape format, then lug 23 lbs of the new tape format down 3 flights of stairs to the next studio to work in, and repeating this process everytime you want to take your project to another stage better suited in another 'studio'. So it is beyond me why neckbeards get their panties all twisted and bunched up their heinie just because someone might have some criticisms about their 'waifu' DAW, even when the criticisms are coming from people who own licenses to and financially support the waifu in question.

Funny thing is, some of the most ardent cry babies with the most amount of pantie wedged the deepest up their chair-shaped heinie ... appear to have a relatively plentiful supply of disposable cash to spend on their hobby. So it's not like they are under huge economic pressure to go 'all in' solely for their waifu, warts n all.

So who's with me ? .... Multiple-DAW gang check in.
[mod edit: flames deleted]

To answer your question....I began with Reason(version 4)....so being that it had no audio & still no MP3 export,it was inevitable...that I would add new DAW's at some point.
A couple of years later,I bought Studio One(& to this day,I cannot imagine life without it...as it's perfect for vocals & mastering.)
Being that I am on a limited budget & have 2 modestly sized desktops,I desperately needed a 3rd budget-friendly DAW that had video support,so I bought Mixcraft 6(it was extremely buggy at first...especially with 3rd party VST's)...but once version 7 came out,it was rock solid.Surprisingly and amazingly so...Mixcraft turned out to be the best software purchase I had ever made(CPU-friendly,very intuitive,good video support,built-in j-bridging,very reasonably priced,superb customer service and Acoustica even has their own installment payment plan.)
All this being said,those who choose to restrict themselves to a single DAW,are missing out on a whole plethora of creative opportunities.

THE INTRANCER
KVRian
1468 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:54 pm

"All this being said,those who choose to restrict themselves to a single DAW,are missing out on a whole plethora of creative opportunities"

"Jack of all trades and master of none", is a saying that is generally true in reality....That doesn't mean one can't explore other things such as DAWs, that's down to personal choice but in the world of modern DAWs...that is pretty much the case and it's much wiser to master one you enjoy using than spending your life time switching back and forth and producing nothing, having a constant battle of mixing different workflows and methodologies, whilst barely scratching the surface of what a single DAW is able to provide on it's own.

As I've always said before... it's not what you have, it's what you do with it that counts...and when your demands exceed the capabilities you need from it and have learned the foundations of a DAW from the ground up...the platform in which you begin from is there waiting for you.

When you actually progress your learning, the level of knowledge you have gained will be much easier to translate to as you move up the complexity ladder. What rung of the ladder one wants to start on is your choice and nobody else's nor is the choice which path you take to get there, however learning starts from nothing and to get there, one must take the first and easiest step whatever their IQ is, to process and memorise what's needed.

As for plugins that are outdated, it's really not much different from using a traditional typewriter versus a computer and monitor screen. It's not much different than walking into PC World and setting up a stand waiting for customers that might be interested in buying one. You'll find a few inquisitive customers glancing with bemusement, walking by as someone proclaimed their product was some new cutting edge technology ...an 80's typewriter for instance, whilst carrying on to buy a powerful PC. Sure the printout or sound in this case might be similar but the whole practicality in which to get to that destination isn't and that process regardless of any reasoning otherwise, is paramount of importance in which to get to their destination.

Software development doesn't stand still, you either keep up or die in the eyes of those who demand what they see is as important, and so it's ever more so as a developer to keep pace, unless you are stubborn and to insist in living in the past for a tiny minority of your potential audience and consumers that you wish to sell a product to.
THE INTRANCER - Studio One Blog Completed - New Dedicated Website In Development | New Sci-Fi Film In Development Soundcloud 28 | Soundclick 16 | Sound Monitoring FOH at UK Stadium/Festivals for Carl Cox, FatBoy Slim ect -

mtelesha
KVRist
276 posts since 21 May, 2018

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:41 pm

1986 - 1999 Amiga and Windows Trackers (Trackers are so different but made it really cool to go from numbers to music)
1999 - 2007 Nuendo Beta and Version 1 (I built my whole studio on it). Was a great tool but it moved from being the Cubas Audio Replacement to its own Live thing. (At the time Cubas only did MIDI)
2007 - 20016 Reaper on Windows and Ardour on Linux. - I loved the workflow I would have been Linux 100% if not for VST issues
2016 to Present - Waveform and Bitwig These two are amazing and work in Linux

Waveform = Fastest DAW to go from Idea to Song. The chord track is nearly perfect and the midi generators are great. Modular is just the only way to go for me. Most fun DAW is Waveform

Bitwig = I do perform allot live in Churches. I don't know if I will have a bass, drummer or whatever so I just have my clips for verses and chorus etc I mute the parts instruments I don't need. Second Most Fun DAW is Bitwig and the modular system is the best bar none.
-------------------
Waveform and Bitwig are my DAWs and UHe is my Bae. I maybe buy one synth a year. REMEMBER SELF just one synth a year!

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9778 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:37 pm

BezO wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:38 am
I find Macs to be the best tool for making Music. They've been great for creating in Pro Tools, Logic and Studio One. Not really sure what the hell you're talking about other than thinking I chose Logic ONLY because I use a Mac.
It's because you said "as a Mac user", as though that was the important part. I don't think of myself as a Mac user or a PC user (I use both), I think of myself as a Cubase user and an After Effects user and a 3DS Max user. But because 3DS Max is Windows only, and so much better for it than any cross-platform application I have ever used, that means I use Cubase and After Effects on Windows, too.
As for stereo panning, look up the difference between balancing and panning, then realize S1 only has a stereo balancer, not a panner. This creates the need to use the plugin if you actually want to pan.
The difference is the input, not the process - you pan a mono source, you balance a stereo source but you use the same tool for both.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Vacuum Pro, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Union, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9778 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:38 pm

Daags wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:47 am
I use multiple DAWs because they have different strengths, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
But a chain is much weaker than a single, solid bar so one host will always be better than a chain of them.
the beauty of VST plugins is they work in whatever DAW is the 'link' I'm working on at any given time.
But you lose all your automation, effects and mixer settings when you move them, plus you need to save off their settings as a preset. It's a lot of work for minimal benefit.
It's not like you have to lug 14 lbs of tape from the studio down stairs, up ten flights of stairs, convert it to a different tape format, then lug 23 lbs of the new tape format down 3 flights of stairs to the next studio to work in, and repeating this process everytime you want to take your project to another stage better suited in another 'studio'.
Perhaps not in terms of the physical effort involved but certainly in terms of the time it takes you, it can be very much like that.
So it is beyond me why neckbeards get their panties all twisted and bunched up their heinie just because someone might have some criticisms about their 'waifu' DAW, even when the criticisms are coming from people who own licenses to and financially support the waifu in question.
Because those people are not idiots, they see the stupidity of using multiple host applications.
Funny thing is, some of the most ardent cry babies with the most amount of pantie wedged the deepest up their chair-shaped heinie ... appear to have a relatively plentiful supply of disposable cash to spend on their hobby. So it's not like they are under huge economic pressure to go 'all in' solely for their waifu, warts n all.
Perhaps, then, they have some other motivation, like wanting to do the best possible job in a reasonable timeframe, with the least amount of effort?
AlesisVi61 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:13 am
What currently really annoys me about such whiny c*ck-juggling-thunder-c*nts,is how they restrict themselves to using only ONE DAW,while bitching about how the upcoming Genesis Pro VST is only 32 bit.
Why would that annoy you, unless you knew deep down that they had a valid point?
This f**king VST only cost a $1.10 and yet,they expect the developer to cater specifically to them??
When "them" is the vast majority of users, it seems reasonable to me and helpful to point that out to the developer.
One jackass claimed that having multiple DAW's on a single computer is a strain on the CPU?How so?Unless you are trying to run mutliple DAW's at once,then yes...that may be a problem. :roll:
I often have both Orion and Cubase open together, usually with the same song loaded on each so I can copy the work from the former to the latter.
To answer your question....I began with Reason(version 4)....so being that it had no audio & still no MP3 export,it was inevitable...that I would add new DAW's at some point.
Why "add"? Do you keep your old car when you buy a new one? I feel that I am in a position where I have no choice other than to have multiple hosts on my laptop but the day I can wheedle it down to one will be a very happy day for me.
All this being said,those who choose to restrict themselves to a single DAW,are missing out on a whole plethora of creative opportunities.
Name one, as in something you can achieve in one of your hosts that you can't do in another or that is so significantly easier/better that it is worth the massive effort involved in exporting everything from one host and setting it all up again in another.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Vacuum Pro, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Union, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

toddbooster
KVRist
40 posts since 27 Feb, 2019

Re: Why you use multiple DAWs ?

Post Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:05 pm

I just like them. I think they're neat. Also, FOMO.

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