Reaper and Bitwig.

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
teilo
KVRist
460 posts since 30 Mar, 2008

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:40 am

You do realize, I hope, that many mono synthesizers have a legato mode that allows you to go from note-to-note while remaining in the sustain phase of your envelope, as well as a portamento mode that allows the pitch to slide from note to note at a set rate.
macOS | Bitwig 3.x | Logic Pro X | Scarlett 6i6 v2 | DX7 w/SER-7 | Adam Audio T7V & Sub8
U-he all | Melda all | TAL synths | Komplete 12 Ult. Coll. | Arturia V 7 | Fabfilter Pro all | Rapid | countless others

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:43 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:35 am
Since this is, as you admit, something unusual,
1/ I only recently considered whether it's usual or not usual.

2/ "unusual" isn't an accurate translation of what I said.

3/ I thought this is an adequate explanation:
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:06 am
I just want to hit the notes of the coarse "tune", using automation.
Last edited by Spring Goose on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
teilo
KVRist
460 posts since 30 Mar, 2008

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:44 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:43 am
1/ I only recently considered whether it's usual or not usual.

2/ "unusual" isn't an accurate translation of what I said.
What you wrote: "I'm not saying that it's usual, but i'm saying it's what I want to do."

I give up.
macOS | Bitwig 3.x | Logic Pro X | Scarlett 6i6 v2 | DX7 w/SER-7 | Adam Audio T7V & Sub8
U-he all | Melda all | TAL synths | Komplete 12 Ult. Coll. | Arturia V 7 | Fabfilter Pro all | Rapid | countless others

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:46 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:40 am
You do realize, I hope, that many mono synthesizers have a legato mode that allows you to go from note-to-note while remaining in the sustain phase of your envelope, as well as a portamento mode that allows the pitch to slide from note to note at a set rate.
No I didn't know that. Thankyou very much for sharing.

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:47 am

"unusual" has connotation of peculiar!

EnGee
KVRAF
5947 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:11 pm

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 am
EnGee wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:05 pm
Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:06 pm
people who program in code/writing
Well, there are different kinds of those programmers.
Those who write in C/C++, Delphi... etc with deep knowledge of DSP. And there are others who write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper.
There are also coders who write music on code like CSound, have you searched that? There are others similar software.

In the 80's they used to call the sound designer a programmer as well.

Reaktor even though you don't write a code but it nevertheless has a high learning curve. Anyway, it's a wonderful environment, you can go as deep as you want. It also you can make light usage and sound design. It has everything for a very reasonable price.
Thankyou, you answered my question. So computer programmers do write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper. So that's why/where I got my impression!

No I haven't searched Csound. For clarification: writing scripts is something I don't want!

Yes I have Reaktor but don't wish to learn the making of Reaktor instruments, effects, utilities. I understand its a great software!
I think I know what you want! You want a list editor or events editor like the one in Cubase or Renoise (Tracker).
Yes, some people use that to edit the events which show in numbers (midi numbers I think).
Anyway, there is already "High" midi there, for example, my Casio keyboard can use 64k values for velocity if the software supports it (like in Pianoteq). Midi 2 on the way, so maybe you want to wait till then and see how that impact the current DAWs.

If you just want to start now, then I just know Cubase and Renoise. Not sure if Reaper has it or not. I don't think I've encountered this editor in Bitwig.

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:45 pm

EnGee wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:11 pm

I think I know what you want! You want a list editor or events editor like the one in Cubase or Renoise (Tracker).
Yes, some people use that to edit the events which show in numbers (midi numbers I think).
Anyway, there is already "High" midi there, for example, my Casio keyboard can use 64k values for velocity if the software supports it (like in Pianoteq). Midi 2 on the way, so maybe you want to wait till then and see how that impact the current DAWs.

If you just want to start now, then I just know Cubase and Renoise. Not sure if Reaper has it or not. I don't think I've encountered this editor in Bitwig.
Thanks. You've given me plenty to think about.

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:05 pm

"A-ha! So you admit that you want to do unusual things with a synthesizer."

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4109 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:44 pm

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:28 am
I don't want to play new notes with a new attack and decay. I want to continue with the same note without triggering a new attack and decay, but alter the pitch of the note. I'm not saying that it's usual, but i'm saying it's what I want to do.
Oh My F***ing God! So that's what this all was about???!!! A portamento?! :dog: :lol:

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna say it for the n-th time: "you're not explaining what you want" :shrug:

Ok, so here goes:
- the way to achieve that, depends on the synth (VST) not a DAW
- the synth needs to be set into monophonic mode, i.e. you can't play chords
- you need to enable (on the VST) an option for glide or portamento (it's called differetly) and usually you can set the time it takes to get from one pitch to next
- then many of the synths will let you choose "legato glide" or something like this, which means notes will change the pitch gradually ONLY when they're overlapping in the sequencer - if there's a gap, the pitch will change instantly; when there's no gap, it'll change gradually
- some synths will also let you control the volume envelope behaviour, i.e. it can either continue from the 1st note (that's what you want I think) or be retriggered

If you let me know which synth, I might be able to be more precise.

EDIT: here's a good tutorial for Subtractor - I'm sure it's there somewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qwYM_0Db4n
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:20 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:44 pm
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:28 am
I don't want to play new notes with a new attack and decay. I want to continue with the same note without triggering a new attack and decay, but alter the pitch of the note. I'm not saying that it's usual, but i'm saying it's what I want to do.
Oh My F***ing God! So that's what this all was about???!!! A portamento?! :dog: :lol:

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna say it for the n-th time: "you're not explaining what you want" :shrug:

Ok, so here goes:
- the way to achieve that, depends on the synth (VST) not a DAW
- the synth needs to be set into monophonic mode, i.e. you can't play chords
- you need to enable (on the VST) an option for glide or portamento (it's called differetly) and usually you can set the time it takes to get from one pitch to next
- then many of the synths will let you choose "legato glide" or something like this, which means notes will change the pitch gradually ONLY when they're overlapping in the sequencer - if there's a gap, the pitch will change instantly; when there's no gap, it'll change gradually
- some synths will also let you control the volume envelope behaviour, i.e. it can either continue from the 1st note (that's what you want I think) or be retriggered

If you let me know which synth, I might be able to be more precise.

EDIT: here's a good tutorial for Subtractor - I'm sure it's there somewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qwYM_0Db4n
I don't want a portamento, but thanks, this is useful to know about.

If I automate the "tune" of an oscillator then I can use 2 oscillators. One oscillator will retain the same pitch, the other oscillator can change pitch, thus achieving a different polyphonic melody like chords but without keep retriggering the envelope.

example

https://soundcloud.com/user-492255322/carbon-electra-3

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4109 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:31 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:20 am
I don't want a portamento, but thanks, this is useful to know about.

If I automate the "tune" of an oscillator then I can use 2 oscillators. One oscillator will retain the same pitch, the other oscillator can change pitch, thus achieving a different polyphonic melody like chords but without keep retriggering the envelope.
That's a really peculiar way of approaching this.

Typically one would use several oscillators of a synth to create a single, unified sound / voice (so for example a mix of saw in 1st osc and PWM square in 2nd osc) which THEN is used to play chords, so for example a triad would be 6 oscillators playing at 3 different pitches.

If you want to gradually move between pitches between two chords each note at the time, you're talking about MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression), which is indeed supported by Bitwig:

https://youtu.be/HPpwNL_6-s4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w_fDKk0xcw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmblhYJUsp8
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:38 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:31 am
That's a really peculiar way of approaching this.
It's just something that should be possible, mate. I simply want to automate one of the automatable parameters of the softsynth, but I wanted to do so (easily) with accuracy/precision which Reason doesn't really have.
antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:31 am
If you want to gradually move between pitches between two chords each note at the time, you're talking about MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression), which is indeed supported by Bitwig:
I don't want to play it. I'm happy just to draw it. I don't think i'd achieve the same results by playing it. TBH i'm only a basic keyboard player, I don't need more expression by MPE!

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4109 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:44 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:38 am
antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:31 am
If you want to gradually move between pitches between two chords each note at the time, you're talking about MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression), which is indeed supported by Bitwig:
I don't want to play it. I'm happy just to draw it. I don't think i'd achieve the same results by playing it. TBH i'm only a basic keyboard player, I don't need more expression by MPE!
Ok, suit yourself. If you prefer weird workarounds rather than to leverage existing, dedicated features and techniques, then be my guest. You don't need to play that in. You can just draw the transitions where & how you want them, using DEDICATED protocol and features.

No surprise you think one needs to be "computer expert" to use settings or keyboard shortcuts...

It's one thing to not know something, but it's something completely different to refuse to learn and stubornly stick to some weird preconception of how you think something should work.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:46 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:44 am

Ok, suit yourself. If you prefer weird workarounds rather than to leverage existing, dedicated features and techniques, then be my guest. You don't need to play that in. You can just draw the transitions where & how you want them, using DEDICATED protocol and features.

No surprise you think one needs to be "computer expert" to use settings or keyboard shortcuts...

It's one thing to not know something, but it's something completely different to refuse to learn and stubornly stick to some weird preconception of how you think something should work.
I don't know why you're getting on your high horse!

Spring Goose
KVRist
319 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:50 am

I'm not refusing to learn. Thusfar in this thread I have learned
1/ about Bitwig
2/ about Reaper
3/ about legato
4/ about portamento

I'll be giving legato and portamento a go, but that isn't what I was asking to do with the automation. I'm learning sound design which isn't really necessarily to do with playing the keyboard.

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