Reaper and Bitwig.

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4054 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:36 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:35 am
The replies could've been:

1/ "no"

2/ "yes"
You can't really see how those questions were imprecise? Would you really be happy if people replied yes/no, withouth actually KNOWING what you're asking for?

An answer for question if a DAW is for "computer programmer" should obviously be a "no", because they're for music producers and/or engineers, so naturally all of us wanted to get to the bottom of this, by asking what you mean exaclty by that.

Similarly, asking for "precise automation" is broad, because for example people like Admiral Bumblebee conduct tests of how automation of effects is actually reflected in processing of sound for different DAWs, so for all I knew you could've been asking about that! That's why my 1st reply was:
antic604 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:03 am
Reaper definitely, Bitwig not really.
But since I knew you used Reason and I know that DAW, I followed with:
antic604 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:03 am
Unless by "accurate" you just mean that automation values reflect the parameter's unit of measure (%, dB, Hz, and so on) and that you can type in the value. In that case yes - any DAW other than Reason has both, incl. Bitwig obviously.
So again, you're using broad and imprecise terms and when I/we try to narrow the topic down you get defensive.

If you're looking to precisely control oscillator pitch via automation just f***ing SAY it, ideally also mentioning a DAW and synth(s) you're using. How hard can it be.

Instead we get "if X/Y is for computer programmers" :dog:

Having said all the above, it's not just you who do that. I recently left Facebook because DAW groups are ALL like that - people ask questions assuming that everyone else sits in their head & know exactly what they do, what's their setup & worklfow and what they want to achieve. And it takes several hours - or days, because obviously those people rarely reply... - to get to the essence of the actual question.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:14 am

Automating the synth parameters isn't a peculiar way to automate the synth parameters.

Is this trolling? Are these people trolls?

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:50 am

Is it an initiation? Am I being initiated into KVR?

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:31 am

Typically one would use several oscillators of a synth to create a single, unified sound / voice (so for example a mix of saw in 1st osc and PWM square in 2nd osc) which THEN is used to play chords, so for example a triad would be 6 oscillators playing at 3 different pitches.

If you want to gradually move between pitches between two chords each note at the time, you're talking about MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression), which is indeed supported by Bitwig:
No I didn't need chords. It was for a monophonic part, 2 oscillators.

Are/were you trying to save me some money? Save me the £315 for Bitwig and the time for learning it. Is that what this is? If so then thank you very much.

Off-topic: Why do you (antic604) use Bitwig?

____________________________________________________________________

If I was being defensive, antic604, its because I didn't want to share the idea about using 2 oscillators then automating the semi-tune of one of the oscillators, because its my original idea and I didn't want somebody copying the idea. I just wanted more precision on my automation.

So now everybody has seemed to calm down, I apologise for any upset I've caused and or any time wasted.

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:33 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:36 am
If you're looking to precisely control oscillator pitch via automation just f***ing SAY it, ideally also mentioning a DAW and synth(s) you're using. How hard can it be.
Which synth? Any of the Arturia synth, synthmaster 2.9, carbon electra, Audiaire Zone, Cableguys Curve, Korg MS20, Massive X, Nektar Bolt, Thorn CM, Dune CM, Bazille CM, and others which is a secret weapon thus I don't want to say the name.

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:53 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:21 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:26 am
Thanks, you have whet my appetite for MPE. I'll look at it again when I have £315 for Bitwig and £229 for Reason 11.
Reason 11 doesn't support VST3 nor MPE.
I thought I could use Reason rack in Bitwig? like somebody (xbitz) suggested
Last edited by Spring Goose on Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3952 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:49 pm

Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am
If I was being defensive, antic604, its because I didn't want to share the idea about using 2 oscillators then automating the semi-tune of one of the oscillators, because its my original idea and I didn't want somebody copying the idea.
You seem to be somebody just starting with very little experience (not even being aware that automation does not have the limitations of Midi for example).
You assume you have a unique idea and want to protect it. Just forget that concept. Share your ideas and people will help.
I bet all the ideas you can come up with in your first year, are ideas which others had as well decades before... And that is fine...!
Getting into electronic music needs some technical understanding as part of your skill set. Programming skills are helpful, but are never required... Just be curious and learn what you need to realize your artistic ideas (which can be unique from the beginning on... (I don’t assume detuning of an oscillator is an artistic idea, its just a color in a palette...)).

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4054 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:57 pm

Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:53 am
antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:21 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:26 am
Thanks, you have whet my appetite for MPE. I'll look at it again when I have £315 for Bitwig and £229 for Reason 11.
Reason 11 doesn't support VST3 nor MPE.
I thought I could use Reason rack in Bitwig? like somebody suggested
You can, but it's not enough for Bitwig to record and transmit MPE data - also the synths you'll load into it need to have that capability and Reason (and by extension - Reason Rack VST and all native and RE devices you can load into it) is not MPE capable.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3952 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:04 am

I use an instrument layer to load lets say 6 instances of any non MPE vst and get MPE even out of monophonic instruments. But its a PITA, mostly I am faster to make a similar sound within the Grid...; - )

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:33 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:49 pm
Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am
If I was being defensive, antic604, its because I didn't want to share the idea about using 2 oscillators then automating the semi-tune of one of the oscillators, because its my original idea and I didn't want somebody copying the idea.
You seem to be somebody just starting with very little experience (not even being aware that automation does not have the limitations of Midi for example).
You assume you have a unique idea and want to protect it. Just forget that concept. Share your ideas and people will help.
I bet all the ideas you can come up with in your first year, are ideas which others had as well decades before... And that is fine...!
Getting into electronic music needs some technical understanding as part of your skill set. Programming skills are helpful, but are never required... Just be curious and learn what you need to realize your artistic ideas (which can be unique from the beginning on... (I don’t assume detuning of an oscillator is an artistic idea, its just a color in a palette...)).
I was self-taught at Cubase since 1998. Then I used Renoise for a number of years. Then I had ten years off. Then I resumed making music in 2018. I've had some good results. I registered on this site because I am looking at entering the Osc competition. Antic604 said he thinks I don't want to learn, but that isn't the case. It's gonna take some learning to do the sound design for Osc competition. Last month I made my own kick drum, snare, and hihat, from Syncla-Xb, which was new for me.

Here's my songs (if you're interested):

https://soundcloud.com/user-492255322/s ... t-a-repeat
Last edited by Spring Goose on Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3952 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:57 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:33 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:49 pm
Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am
If I was being defensive, antic604, its because I didn't want to share the idea about using 2 oscillators then automating the semi-tune of one of the oscillators, because its my original idea and I didn't want somebody copying the idea.
You seem to be somebody just starting with very little experience (not even being aware that automation does not have the limitations of Midi for example).
You assume you have a unique idea and want to protect it. Just forget that concept. Share your ideas and people will help.
I bet all the ideas you can come up with in your first year, are ideas which others had as well decades before... And that is a lot fine...!
Getting into electronic music needs some technical understanding as part of your skill set. Programming skills are helpful, but are never required... Just be curious and learn what you need to realize your artistic ideas (which can be unique from the beginning on... (I don’t assume detuning of an oscillator is an artistic idea, its just a color in a palette...)).
I was self-taught at Cubase since 1998. Then I used Renoise for a number of years. Then I had ten years off. Then I resumed making music in 2008. I've had some good results. I registered on this site because I am looking at entering the Osc competition. Antic604 said he thinks I don't want to learn, but that isn't the case. It's gonna take some learning to do the sound design for Osc competition. Last month I made my own kick drum, snare, and hihat, from Syncla-Xb, which was new for me.

Here's my songs (if you're interested):

https://soundcloud.com/user-492255322/s ... t-a-repeat
I am always interested...

Thanks for clarifying. Your questions all had been in the ballpark of a newbee - my bad, I apologize...
If you want to learn sound design I think Bitwig would be a perfect tool just for that. The Grid is the most intuitive modular synth I know of. You can make all kinds of experiments, look at resulting waveforms to really get a deeper understanding of any kind of synthesis.
The other playground to learn that is the free VCV rack. But Bitwig is the more clear way to get into that... You will find a lot of community patches which show how things could be done...

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:08 am

Did I say 2008? I meant 2018. I resumed making music in 2018. I'll edit my post. Hope you enjoy my songs!

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4054 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:32 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am
Off-topic: Why do you (antic604) use Bitwig?
I started "writing" music in trackers in high-school (early 90s) on 8-bit Atari 800XL, then I moved to 16-bit Amiga and very briefly to PC in 1999 (for one track, basically).

Then life "happened" - I started full time work, got married, have 3 kids. Only in 2017 I decided to go back to my hobby and entered the world of DAWs, MIDI, VSTs, etc. Bitwig was a natural extension of my tracker workflow, because it can be used in this clip / sequence paradigm which felt familiar, yet greatly expanded. I'm also primarily electronic music fan & hobbyist "producer", so rather than harmonic / tonality my music's more about sound design, generative & random stuff and Bitwig really excells there, literally like no other DAW with modulators (re)introduced in v2, The Grid in v3 and many other smaller things along the way. Some DAWs can match and even beat it in terms of possibilites there (Live, FL, Reason, Reapers), but it's the fast & easy workflow that sets it apart and makes ALL the difference in this: it's very quick to build, edit and iterate complex device chains (or instruments / FX now with The Grid) and if that's something that lets your creative juices flowing, then it might well be the right choice for you. If however it's only a small margin of what you do, then something else like Studio One - a more modern and 'lite' version of traditional DAW like Cubase, Logic or Reaper - might be a better choice.

Lots of people in Reason community upgraded to v11 only to take their toys to either Studio One, Live or - recently - Logic Pro. There's few dozens of us that went Bitwig, but that's a less obvious choice due to it being new (released in 2014) and still fairly unpopular, which means there's less info & tutorials about in on-line, less collab opportunities, less big artist names using it (which surprisingly is a major deciding factor for many), etc.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:02 am

antic604 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:32 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am
Off-topic: Why do you (antic604) use Bitwig?
I started "writing" music in trackers in high-school (early 90s) on 8-bit Atari 800XL, then I moved to 16-bit Amiga and very briefly to PC in 1999 (for one track, basically).

Then life "happened" - I started full time work, got married, have 3 kids. Only in 2017 I decided to go back to my hobby and entered the world of DAWs, MIDI, VSTs, etc. Bitwig was a natural extension of my tracker workflow, because it can be used in this clip / sequence paradigm which felt familiar, yet greatly expanded. I'm also primarily electronic music fan & hobbyist "producer", so rather than harmonic / tonality my music's more about sound design, generative & random stuff and Bitwig really excells there, literally like no other DAW with modulators (re)introduced in v2, The Grid in v3 and many other smaller things along the way. Some DAWs can match and even beat it in terms of possibilites there (Live, FL, Reason, Reapers), but it's the fast & easy workflow that sets it apart and makes ALL the difference in this: it's very quick to build, edit and iterate complex device chains (or instruments / FX now with The Grid) and if that's something that lets your creative juices flowing, then it might well be the right choice for you. If however it's only a small margin of what you do, then something else like Studio One - a more modern and 'lite' version of traditional DAW like Cubase, Logic or Reaper - might be a better choice.

Lots of people in Reason community upgraded to v11 only to take their toys to either Studio One, Live or - recently - Logic Pro. There's few dozens of us that went Bitwig, but that's a less obvious choice due to it being new (released in 2014) and still fairly unpopular, which means there's less info & tutorials about in on-line, less collab opportunities, less big artist names using it (which surprisingly is a major deciding factor for many), etc.
cheers

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:26 pm

To antic604:

I wondered if you'd enjoy this song. It isn't psy-trance but it is quite trippy.

https://soundcloud.com/user-492255322/kindred

I put it 5 month ago, but nobody listened to it. I'm quite prolific BTW.

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