[Intro pricing extended] Available now: T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

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T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

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Your posts are great. I'm glad you're double posting in GS too. Thank you for sharing your particular insight. I'm at the studio now and a little earlier Paul told me you emailed him to tell him how much you love the plug-in. He was really happy to hear this from someone who worked at the studio who would really know. Paul's a great guy. He's been so accommodating.
I was just happy he allowed it to happen, so I wanted to thank him. As I mentioned, previously this wasn't something that was on the table.

I don't know how long you are at the studio, and I know you were looking forward to Sushi. If you've already had your sushi fix, and if you guys are ever in a time crunch for lunch, May I recommend RoRo's Chicken across the street? Man, I miss that place. It ain't fancy, and it probably ain't super healthy, but for my simple palette, it is the standard by which I hold all shawarma too. I lived on it as a runner. If you've been hanging out there for a while, you've probably had it already once or twice, but if you haven't and you like that kind of food its worth a look. Careful with the garlic paste though, it's delicious and those control rooms aren't huge when you are dealing with that level of garlic intensity.

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The rest of T-RackS is mostly based on physical modeling techniques recreating the sound of console channel strips and other outboard gear. Some of that type technology is part of Sunset Sound Studio Reverb as well. That's a simple very understandable way of describing it but there's more to it than that. It should sound closer to how it would sound at the studio sending and returning on either the Neve or the modified API... but with only basic filtering as opposed to a full 550a in there as well (but there's a model of that in T-RackS to use if needed).

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Teneyetus wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:27 am
I was just happy he allowed it to happen, so I wanted to thank him. As I mentioned, previously this wasn't something that was on the table.

I don't know how long you are at the studio, and I know you were looking forward to Sushi. If you've already had your sushi fix, and if you guys are ever in a time crunch for lunch, May I recommend RoRo's Chicken across the street? Man, I miss that place. It ain't fancy, and it probably ain't super healthy, but for my simple palette, it is the standard by which I hold all shawarma too. I lived on it as a runner. If you've been hanging out there for a while, you've probably had it already once or twice, but if you haven't and you like that kind of food its worth a look. Careful with the garlic paste though, it's delicious and those control rooms aren't huge when you are dealing with that level of garlic intensity.
Thanks. We're wrapping up a session soon. I bought Katsuya for everyone which is always appreciated. But, earlier I did go across the street for lunch and saw that place wondering if it was good. So thanks! Might try it next time. I had a beef bowl at the Sushi Q place because I saw one of the runners eating it and it looked pretty good. Although not good enough. I doubt I'll ever have it again. I'll try your suggestion!

It was cool when Paul mentioned you. He didn't know about the forum chatter. He was saying that he got a message from someone who worked at the studio and I said "oh I know who it is!" and then we talked about you. As I said, he was thrilled you like it and have tracks you can really demo it with. That's very cool that you do and also great that you shared some of them. Your posts are appreciated by anyone who is serious about wanting to get the most out of a plug-in like this.

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Squids wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:17 am
MooneyTunes wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:48 pm It doesn't take a genius to see what's gone on with this thread. The saddest part is that KVR allows this and that other new releases will undoubtedly emulate it. Looking forward to an 8 page response of why I'm wrong and SSSR is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I bet you are. It's fun to get some attention for complaining. I mean, bottom of the barrel fun that is.

PS. This is how KVR has been for almost 20 years. Welcome to KVR.
Not nearly as fun as having diarrhea of the keyboard. Do you ever have an unexpressed thought???

[mod edit: This personal attack earned the poster a temporary ban. Any repetition will result in a permanent ban.]

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MooneyTunes wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:04 am
Not nearly as fun as having diarrhea of the keyboard. Do you ever have an unexpressed thought???
Yes, I'm not going to express what I really think of what you wrote. Anyway, I'm not really into a whole discussion about discussion. If you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.

Plus, you joined KVR this month? Who are you to judge how people should post here? Some people contribute a lot. What's your contribution? Comments like this? :clap:

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Squids wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:34 am
MooneyTunes wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:04 am
Not nearly as fun as having diarrhea of the keyboard. Do you ever have an unexpressed thought???
Yes, I'm not going to express what I really think of what you wrote. Anyway, I'm not really into a whole discussion about discussion. If you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.

Plus, you joined KVR this month? Who are you to judge how people should post here? Some people contribute a lot. What's your contribution? Comments like this? :clap:
Yes, I've just joined. It doesn't take long to recognize that some people "contribute" a whole lot more than they need to. Much of which is tangential at best. The fact that I'm not the only poster to suggest this indicates it's not just me. My contribution so far has been to at least be to the point.
Last edited by MooneyTunes on Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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imrae wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:08 pm If you're really lucky, they'll give a (probably garbled) version of your comments to a big-name producer and come back with a condescending quote.
I wanted to expand on this because of what happened today. I witnessed an interesting discussion about audiophiles between mastering engineer Bernie Grundman and Bruce Botnick. It was about people sometimes getting hung up on specs and science when, at least in music, they should be relying more on their ears than the theory. This discussion had nothing to do with your post, that was something I mentioned to Bruce earlier and got that very curt response... and even though it can be taken as condescending I actually look at it more how you'd hear a cool professor (he actually did teach audio at USC) would shock you into hearing his point... which is to use your ears primarily.

Anyway, Bernie was telling a story about a mastering session with purists who didn't want EQ because of this or that reason and he said "but this song doesn't sound good as it is and needs to the help of EQ to balance it" and they did end up liking it with EQ but then explained there reason scientifically that it's only because of (and I don't know what it was that he said exactly) and he just said "No it's because it sounds good this way".

I think it's a great lesson and reminder for you, for me or anyone reading that. We all get a bit technical and try to play audio sleuth sometimes. But, what's the point? It really only has any use if it's making your music and mixes sound great. Is it? If so, we should share our music and mixes so that others can understand how our theories about this stuff makes music and mixes sound better. That brings substance to an argument. Otherwise it's just talk and I love the perspective of these seasoned audio guys who have made tons of albums... I mean, I don't know if anyone on the planet has mastered as many albums as Bernie Grundman! Maybe Bob Ludwig. But, I bet he'd say some of the same things. They just point blank tell you what's up and I appreciate it. We can learn from them.

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MooneyTunes wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:44 am
Yes, I've just joined. It doesn't take long to recognize that some people "contribute" a whole lot more than they need to. The majority of which is tangential at best. The fact that I'm not the only poster to suggest this indicates it's not just me. My contribution so far has been to at least be to the point.
I've been on here since 2002 and it's always been that way. Nothing new. But, let me tell you about this feature they have on the site called "ignore". You can set it to ignore someone so you don't even have to be subjected to their posts or you can simply not read someone's posts manually if others aren't "to the point" enough for you. Anyway, hope you have more to offer this community than criticism of people's posts. :tu:

And that's already more of a response than this deserves. As I said, discussing how people discuss on here is not what the forum is for. Neither is giving people a hard time for expressing themselves on topic.
Last edited by Squids on Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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That was genuinely helpful. Thank you!

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MooneyTunes wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:02 am That was genuinely helpful. Thank you!
:tu: :roll:

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Squids wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:25 am
imrae wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:08 pm If you're really lucky, they'll give a (probably garbled) version of your comments to a big-name producer and come back with a condescending quote.
Hey man I just quoted you and your thing about spectral images to see what someone like Bruce Botnick would say and yes it was condescending what he said which is "If you're spending your time looking at graphs rather than listening you're in the wrong business" but I actually find that response both hilarious and also genuinely insightful.
If you'd represented me fairly then the response would make no sense. I never said the reverb doesn't sound good and I never challenged its usefulness. As potential buyers we are trying to determine why the product is so expensive when other "IR ROMplers" are far more affordable. If you and Peter had just openly said "the tech isn't special, it's the licensing and exclusivity" that would be fine, but instead you have hidden behind vague claims, speculation and long-winded posts that make the thread difficult to navigate. So we investigate by ourselves.
What he said does seem harsh and it's harsher than I would be about it but sometimes that's what we need. A reality check.

PS. That wasn't garbled it was verbatim. Cut and dry. I just think you just didn't like it which is understandable.
My comments were not conveyed verbatim, or they would not have led to such an irrelevant response. What he said is something that I would mostly agree with in a different context. When auditioning options in my DAW, I'll use my ears. When making purchasing decisions, I'd like to also use my brain.

I'm shocked by how many people have apparently been "blown away" by this normal application of a well-established technology. I was also very impressed when I first used Space Designer in about 2008. In 2020: "ah yes, that is a pleasant and convincing mic-in-room sound as expected".

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Tough crowd :D

Anyway, I think the SSSR is a damn fine plugin, sounds great, all elements sound great. I have heaps of reverbs, this isn't necessarily better than the others I have, and they aren't necessarily better than SSSR, but SSSR does have 'something' apart from just sounding great, and whatever that is I like (must be the sound of the spaces/studio themselves) and I do like that it is easy and quick. You might say it has 'limited' controls, or limited tweakability or something similar, while being true that could sound negative, have negative connotations, but for me it really suits the plugin and allows you enough control, because it does sound so good. Well Done.

After demoing it for a couple of days, personally there really was no choice, for me it was one of those things I just had to have, and for the price I got it for, $87.98 it really was a no brainer. I already had 35 gear credits that had been sitting there for ages, just purchased another 100 pack and a 25 pack using the full allowable amount of Jampoints which cost me $87.98, that gave me 160 gear credits in the Custom Shop . . . Done deal, and again finding the often maligned Gear Credits and Jampoints scheme to be extremely useful and much appreciated.
Say NO to CLAP!

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imrae wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:05 am I'm shocked by how many people have apparently been "blown away" by this normal application of a well-established technology. I was also very impressed when I first used Space Designer in about 2008. In 2020: "ah yes, that is a pleasant and convincing mic-in-room sound as expected".
You're not alone. It sounds fine but IMO it's in the same ballpark as Altiverb, which has a lot of studio captures as well as auditoria. (It's also a lot more expensive so if you don't have Altiverb, SSSR doesn't seem unreasonable at the intro price for a set of decently captured real spaces).

However, I'm surprised at people saying it's "so much better". It may be because some of the Altiverb captures benefit from a little EQ: the UMRK studio captures, for example, are quite dark. I suspect some of the post-processing that's gone into SSSR deals with some of those adjustments out of the box. However, you do get a lot of simulated position control in Altiverb plus the ability to tune decay times, which lets you simulate the live-band-in-a-room situation with several instances.

Also, if you're prepared to do a bit of tuning and don't want something "real" out of the box, you can get a similar sense of space by pairing something like Hornet's Spaces (a waveguide-based reverb that does well on early reflections) with ValhallaRoom. The advantage there is you can tune the reverb to the source more easily and VRoom does a pretty good job of sounding like a real room rather than a Lexi-style lush verb. I haven't tried this specifically, but Melda's reverb might substitute for the Hornet in a setup like this as you get positioning control in that.

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Squids wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:54 am I think it's a great lesson and reminder for you, for me or anyone reading that. We all get a bit technical and try to play audio sleuth sometimes. But, what's the point? It really only has any use if it's making your music and mixes sound great. Is it? If so, we should share our music and mixes so that others can understand how our theories about this stuff makes music and mixes sound better. That brings substance to an argument. Otherwise it's just talk and I love the perspective of these seasoned audio guys who have made tons of albums... I mean, I don't know if anyone on the planet has mastered as many albums as Bernie Grundman! Maybe Bob Ludwig. But, I bet he'd say some of the same things. They just point blank tell you what's up and I appreciate it. We can learn from them.
Much respect to you and the experienced engineers you are bringing up, but I think you are downplaying the technical expertise involved in what they do. The recording engineers at Abbey Road wore lab coats, and in their sessions with musicians like The Beatles it was the push and pull between the artists and the engineers that propelled the art/science of recording to new and exciting places.

Regarding my criticism of the Sunset Sound Reverb for not providing IRs captured with the speaker in different locations in the live rooms, here is an excerpt from a recording I did of a flute and guitar duet. The flute player was to the left and the guitarist to the right. These are only the spot mics, a 4038 positioned over the shoulder of the flutist to minimize bleed and the mid channel (M150) of an M/S configuration on the guitar. The spot mics are mono of course, so they are panned to approximate the position of the musicians.

Here is the dry signal:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/86s ... 20room.wav

Here is the stereo convolution with a live room IR from a single speaker in a center position:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/kfy ... 20room.wav

And here is the stereo convolution of the flute with an IR captured from a speaker in a left position of the room and the guitar with an IR from a speaker in the right position:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ovv ... 20room.wav

To me the different speaker positions result in a much more natural and realistic sound. The single position makes my body tense up. I would have liked to have been able to do such positioning with the IRs of the live rooms in SSSD, and provide these examples not to debate but to perhaps encourage IK to make a Version 2 that would include more speaker positions. Just Left Center Right would be great, but close and far as well would be even more awesome!

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Gamma-UT wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:38 am
imrae wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:05 am I'm shocked by how many people have apparently been "blown away" by this normal application of a well-established technology. I was also very impressed when I first used Space Designer in about 2008. In 2020: "ah yes, that is a pleasant and convincing mic-in-room sound as expected".
You're not alone. It sounds fine but IMO it's in the same ballpark as Altiverb, which has a lot of studio captures as well as auditoria. (It's also a lot more expensive so if you don't have Altiverb, SSSR doesn't seem unreasonable at the intro price for a set of decently captured real spaces).

However, I'm surprised at people saying it's "so much better". It may be because some of the Altiverb captures benefit from a little EQ: the UMRK studio captures, for example, are quite dark. I suspect some of the post-processing that's gone into SSSR deals with some of those adjustments out of the box. However, you do get a lot of simulated position control in Altiverb plus the ability to tune decay times, which lets you simulate the live-band-in-a-room situation with several instances.

Also, if you're prepared to do a bit of tuning and don't want something "real" out of the box, you can get a similar sense of space by pairing something like Hornet's Spaces (a waveguide-based reverb that does well on early reflections) with ValhallaRoom. The advantage there is you can tune the reverb to the source more easily and VRoom does a pretty good job of sounding like a real room rather than a Lexi-style lush verb. I haven't tried this specifically, but Melda's reverb might substitute for the Hornet in a setup like this as you get positioning control in that.
My comment about being blown away was in regards to the accuracy of the captures. I’ve been an altiverb user for a long time, I thought it was great. But the difference is I’ve never stood in any of the rooms they sampled, so I couldn’t comment on the accuracy or be totally impressed by it. So my experience with Altiverb would be similar to someone on this thread who hears the Sunset Sound Studio Reverb and says, “yeah, that sounds awesome and it may be useful
To me in some situations, but I don’t see what’s so amazing about it.” That said, I think the options provided here are very usable, and easy to dial in.

I’ve heard and love the Sunset chamber sound on LiquidSonics 7th heaven, which is one of my favorite reverb plug ins. It sounds great, but for me it’s not quite like the real thing, and that’s okay, it’s still a very useful setting.

The reason I said I was blown away, is because these rooms, chambers and plates sound like they do at Sunset. I haven’t heard something that sounds like that before. In my mind, because those are the only real plates I know, the plates here are exactly what plates are supposed to sound like. I own abbey road plates, and little plate, both of which are great plug ins on their own, but they still didn’t give me the sound I was looking for - and that’s due to my limited experience of what real plates sound like. So when I think I want a plate sound, this is the sound I am picturing in my mind. That doesn’t mean I will stop using abbey road or little plate, their different tones are very useful and will be used in addition to SSR.

This isn’t the reverb to end all reverbs. It’s another tool to use, and it does it’s intended purpose well, which is simply to give you access to the rooms and gear at SSR. For some of us that is a special thing to have access to, for others less familiar with the place, I get why our general enthusiasm isn’t understood. If this is just another room to you, I get it, but just like how people love and get excited about being able to access Abbey Road, or Capital, or Ocean Way sounds from their computers, people now have access to Sunset Sound. That will mean more to some than others.

I have learned one thing from this thread, I need to check out Valhalla because people here seem
To love it, and friends outside of this thread seem to love it, and the price is right so I’ll be checking it out too.
Last edited by Teneyetus on Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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