Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
jens
KVRAF
19868 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:40 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:15 am
jens wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:02 am
What do you mean with duplicate one Block to another? You can simply select the Block you want from your list of Blocks and that's it. Nonetheless: if you duplicate (crtl+D) a Block it basically reacts like a clip.
Oh, I mean if I have a block called "verse 1" and want to have another one called "verse 2" which is a slight variation of the earlier one, then I can't easilly duplicate existing block to an empty slot. I have to go to "verse 1", select all the clips across all the tracks, copy them, go to new block, set my playhead position and paste everything. It's a minor thing, but I've no idea how it was overlooked :)
I forgot to reply to this earlier:

Got you now. I had thought that you referred to the arrangement of Blocks in Song mode instead of their creation in Block mode but now that I understood you I actually agree, even though it is indeed a minor thing.

Here's two other things I wish were included / possible.:

An actual crossfade between Block and Song audio (applying the same brilliant crossfade handles we have in comp edit)

The ability to have additional audio-lanes also for audio tracks and not just for MiDI. That way we could then (in Song mode) switch between different alternative clips as we can n do with MIDI
(And of course it would also make other nice things possible such as layering several takes)

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antic604
KVRAF
4045 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:49 pm

jens wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:40 pm
Here's two other things I wish were included / possible.:

An actual crossfade between Block and Song audio (applying the same brilliant crossfade handles we have in comp edit)

The ability to have additional audio-lanes also for audio tracks and not just for MiDI. That way we could then (in Song mode) switch between different alternative clips as we can n do with MIDI
(And of course it would also make other nice things possible such as layering several takes)
Yep, that would be sweet!

One other thing I forgot to mention that's missing is a simple process of creating Block out of your existing arrangement - you should be able to e.g. set up loop region, right-click and select "make Block out of loop region". Instead you need to laboriously cut all the clips out to not extend outside of the region you want, select all of them (and that in itself is not easy in a tall project!) and copy/paste to new block.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

jens
KVRAF
19868 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:22 am

Yes, agreed. But since my default project template now contains a range of standard sections and I am determined to make it a habit to always start by building blocks it does not affect me much.

noxxle_
KVRer
14 posts since 6 Jan, 2020

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:31 am

Why are we limited to 32 blocks? Can I change this setting somewhere?

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antic604
KVRAF
4045 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:59 am

noxxle_ wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:31 am
Why are we limited to 32 blocks? Can I change this setting somewhere?
No, that's the hard limit.

Do you really need more, though? You can use multiple MIDI lanes (soloed exchangeably at playback) to create variation out of single blocks. You can make them longer and just have the front, middle or end playing & looping. You can overlap 'normal' MIDI, audio and automation clips on top of Blocks clips, etc. It's weird to have the limit at all, but in practice it's very rarely a limit, IMO.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

eclipxe
KVRer
8 posts since 23 Dec, 2007

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:52 am

I agree 100% - Blocks are amazing and exactly how I want to arrange. The pattern backing + overlap of clips is perfect for my workflow.

Fun fact - the unreleased beta of Maschine's updated "song mode" a few (5?) years ago included this *exact* functionality. You could layer your scenes down and then expose a "song" layer where clips could override. It was amazing as well.

Image

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:55 pm

jens wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:46 am
From having played in countless bands over the course of many years, I have learned that sequenced transitions between song-sections often do not sound natural to me because they simply are not at all.

It sounds like a cut, a switch, a hard edge.

Performed music is not like that. There the transistions start a few beats or even bars before the actual section change. At the section change, they are often not completely finished either. And for this reason you can get away with much more diverse transitions if they are performed, than if they are sequenced based on sections/patterns -
Recently I was thinking: Cubase and Nuendo's "Time Warp" feature would be helpful for this problem you described.

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bmanic
KVRAF
8548 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:28 pm

I'm trying to wrap my head around this and understand what is so unique about these supposed blocks? Can't you do this in pretty much any DAW that supports "regions" or "arrangements"? In fact, I'm struggling to think of a DAW that hasn't got this feature.

It's basically just a sort of grouping for stuff in the arrangement, making it easy to copy stuff and modify things with a single mouse click + drag instead of selecting hundreds of individual clips/things in the arrangement.

Am I missing something here?
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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antic604
KVRAF
4045 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:34 pm

bmanic wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:28 pm
Am I missing something here?
Yes, it's closer to Renoise's patterns or Bitwig/Live's scenes in clip launchers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPlD4N11vM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6UFCdD4Lyk
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

jens
KVRAF
19868 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:22 am

bmanic wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:28 pm
egions" or "arrangements"? In fact, I'm struggling to think of a DAW that hasn't got this feature.
It's basically just a sort of grouping for stuff in the arrangement, making it easy to copy stuff and modify things with a single mouse click + drag instead of selecting hundreds of individual clips/things in the arrangement.

No, it certainly isn't only that at all.

Am I missing something here?


Yes, first of all the one function that makes all the difference, i.e. the very thing this thread is actually supposed to be about. ;-)


But besides that you seem to miss a lot more such as:

- if a "Block" gets changed, this change is reflected everywhere in the "Song" it is used.

- in the Song you can arbitrarily use only arbitrary sections of any given Block

- you can arbitrarly change any Block to any other Block in the Song at any point.

- and thanks to what this thread is about, you can even add Blocks where there's already
content (i.e. clips) on the timeline and when and where this is the case, the Block will be ignored.

- Blocks can have an unlimited (I think) number of lanes for each MIDI track, any everywhere a Block is used in the Song you can arbiitrarily mute any of them and this change won't be reflected in the other places the Block is used. I.e. Blocks can have variations for MIDI. (Unfortunately not for audio though and I don't know why).

jens
KVRAF
19868 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:26 am

eclipxe wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:52 am
I agree 100% - Blocks are amazing and exactly how I want to arrange. The pattern backing + overlap of clips is perfect for my workflow.

Fun fact - the unreleased beta of Maschine's updated "song mode" a few (5?) years ago included this *exact* functionality. You could layer your scenes down and then expose a "song" layer where clips could override. It was amazing as well.

Image
Interesting.

B.t.w.: I guess I will never get why they didn't let Machine mature into a fully-fledged DAW.

jens
KVRAF
19868 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:27 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:55 pm
Recently I was thinking: Cubase and Nuendo's "Time Warp" feature would be helpful for this problem you described.
How so?

Spring Goose
KVRist
303 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:07 am

jens wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:27 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:55 pm
Recently I was thinking: Cubase and Nuendo's "Time Warp" feature would be helpful for this problem you described.
How so?
Because musicians varying their tempo during the performance

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antic604
KVRAF
4045 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:34 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:07 am
jens wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:27 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:55 pm
Recently I was thinking: Cubase and Nuendo's "Time Warp" feature would be helpful for this problem you described.
How so?
Because musicians varying their tempo during the performance
But contents of Blocks - MIDI and audio clips - will obviously adjust playback speed to the changed tempo, too. That's nothing extraordinary.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

jens
KVRAF
19868 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

Post Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:00 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:07 am
jens wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:27 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:55 pm
Recently I was thinking: Cubase and Nuendo's "Time Warp" feature would be helpful for this problem you described.
How so?
Because musicians varying their tempo during the performance
Yes, true and it's a great feature (the completely free Sonar has it too btw) but this thread is about the arrangement side of things. Tempo variations are another - albeit quite related - issue / topic.

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