Mod Appreciation Thread

Any problems with the site? How can we improve KVR?
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Forgotten
KVRAF
11379 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:09 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:56 am
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:17 am
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:51 am
It’s moccasins so not even close when spelt out.
Those are shoes. Your joke was a play on Mockers (not moccas). ;)
Mate I don’t know that it was :oops:
It’s just another of your mocker sins...

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
27405 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:34 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:56 am
Do we have any mods here? :scared:

Didn't even know.
Well, given how polite & civil most discussion on KVR is, they don't really have a lot to moderate


;)

chk071
KVRAF
24017 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:40 am

V0RT3X wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:14 am
I just want to give a shoutout to the mods who tirelessly sort us out from time to time.

I’m not sure what this place would turn into without you guys :hihi:
I wished the moderation was more strict though. I see people calling each others idiots every day here, and nobody even gets a warning.

I know, it's not contemporary to enforce rules, but, hey... I think everyone here benefits from it.

TBH, I completely stopped to report anyone, because, I just don't see the point.

Oh, and thanks for the immediate thumb down. You know who you are. :tu:
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2461 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:55 am

It's quite difficult.

Should I be banning troll-like whinges that repeat the same personal issues with every post?

The long Avenger thread is a perfect example of this. It's a whisker away from becoming Troll Forum.

I hand out warning about crack posts as these are clearly banned.

Would like feedback on what to do about trolls, ie, repeated bitching that gets nasty, saying the sort of things you'd never say in real company.

The Ban/Manage options exists, but personally I don't like using it.

Your thoughts please. I'm listening.
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger 1.5 + 14 xps, Dune 3, XLN Audio XO, Microtonic, Pigments, Arturia 6, Cableguys Soundshaper 2, Izotope Neutron & Ozone, Valhalla, Spire, Sasquatch Kick 2, Mongoose, Panagement

chk071
KVRAF
24017 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:06 am

kevvvvv wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:55 am
It's quite difficult.
It is, definitely. But, I think, when you set up rules, which are there for the majority of people, it's a bit pointless to let a few individuals take a dump on them, and do what they do. You know, I don't mind a bit of even heated discussion as well, but, it's not fun anymore if you get insulted by people who use this as some kind of work off therapy.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16054 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:32 am

Here Here! Job well done :tu:

Image

Meffy
Skunk Mod
21314 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:06 am

Thanks to V0RT3X and to everyone. We try!

One thing I'd like to emphasize: moderator actions stand out as unusual and visible. But far more important IMO are the everyday behaviors of the members. By and large your reasoned, thoughtful, or just plain funny posts make KVR what it is. Because you care about the forums and your fellow members, because you think over your words before posting, the forums are for the most part successful, popular, enjoyable, and educational. The forums might have a reputation as somewhat rough or chaotic, but I for one prefer light moderation to a more authoritarian approach.

When it comes to deciding what's acceptable, what's dubious, and what definitely violates the rules, mods have a tough decision to make. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes not. Consider:

If we wield the banhammer too enthusiastically, the community can lose members who have real talent, skills, knowledge, and so on, but who are hot-headed or otherwise intemperate. Too much banning and there will be nobody left to post "I miss the old KVR" any longer.

If we're too generous and lax, bad actors get free rein to bully and blast others (who might or might not deserve it, but that shouldn't enter into the decision). That can drive out posters who decide it's not worth the trouble.

How can we enforce the rules in a way that balances our discretion with community preferences? For me the best solution is to monitor threads that seem to invite contention, but we can't always know which those are.

So again we have to rely, at least in part, on other KVR members to report posts that in their view violate the rules.

Not long ago I read a news story that examined illegal street racing. It included an interview with a resident who complained that for years he had been kept awake by roaring engines and screeching tires, and to top it all off the near-fatal wreck that triggered the news outlet's investigative story.

The reporter asked (I'm paraphrasing from memory here), "This went on for over a year, you say — have you called the police on the racers?"

"No", said the man being interviewed. "Why bother? The police wouldn't have done anything about it so I never tried." How could he have known if he never tried? No answer, the man just made a disgusted face and walked away.

Please, please bother! We might not agree with every report. We're trying our best to balance openness against order. We don't have an entire police department and judicial system at our disposal. It's just us unpaid volunteers armed with a few internet resources for investigating possibly fishy goings-on. Your help is essential.

Forum posters' participation is what in the military is called a "force multiplier". A handful of mods alone are barely able to keep up with the volume of posts in a big, diverse forum like this. With the help of posters we're far more effective.

Reporting posts that clearly violate the forum rules isn't "ratting" or being a "snitch". It's the best way every KVR member can participate in regulating behavior. If it's done well, everyone gets a fairer, more secure forum.

For the most part we avoid treating ordinary smartass-ness the same as serious personal abuse; people need to be free to express opinions, even if they might be disagreeable about it. Drawing the line between okay and no-go is never easy, and it's quite possible for mods to honestly disagree on where the line should go. Some cases are serious enough that we consult each other and try to reach consensus before acting.

That's my sermon for the day. Back to work for me. Keep contributing, and again, THANKS!

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Hink
Rad Grandad
31641 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:06 am

I appreciate the kind words from VORTEX and others
chk071 wrote: I wished the moderation was more strict though. I see people calling each others idiots every day here, and nobody even gets a warning
you dont know that and therein lies another issue, for instance you dont know that last week I spent an afternoon exchanging PM's with a member who did not agree with my enforcing the rules. You see a part of the picture, there is no reason to carry this on in public, this is not unusual.

We get a lot of help in the sell and buy forum which is greatly appreciated, I have had many multiple PM exchanges there just because someone broke the bump rule, I made them aware of their err and they tell me it's stupid, I'm stupid. More than one person has said that there is no reason we dont offer an auto-bump feature...write a script they say...apparently giving people a free place to advertise isnt enough, they want us to sell it for em too :hihi:

The point is you dont see these PM's, you dont see a lot of what we do and ftr I always appreciated you assistance, you will understand this next part.

Another big issue is the games of whack-a-troll we must play. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I loathe banning and really dislike suspending. I have found that locking (or a temp lock) or deleting posts (with a soft delete in case I'm wrong) can be effective and changing the course without losing members who also make good points and bring a lot to the table.

Then of course there is the sockpuppets that arise as a result of a suspension, I often use the term better the devil you know. It's far more practical in my opinion to try and work with existing members than to have the same member come back as a different user and it takes time to figure out they are who they are...meanwhile I a lot of redundancy being said to the new sockpuppet while it's just going in one ear and out the other.

We are never going to find that one size fits all, we will never satisfy everyone but that's how it is. I care about KvR, I think this is very apparent but let's make it clear, I am saying that I really care about the people here and the services we provide. The former is a big deal, language barriers, generation gaps and such happen as well.

I'm not justifying the bad behavior, just saying that I try to keep in mind everyday that moderate is also an adjective. I can say that it's an honor to do this, I wish I had a thing like this a long time ago because I learn tons from everyone here. I also try and always have to bring a personal side to KvR as well, we are all people.

It's also a privilege to work with the MODs here, again it wont be seen but we were up very late trying to resolve a major issue here a few nights ago and we all started early. We mods put in a lot of time here, which is not a complaint but a fact (I have been on dates with Holly, she goes to the bathroom, comes back out, see me on my phone and say "KvR?").

I apologize for not being perfect, I make mistakes too but I can assure you that every mod here works to keep this place going smoothly and I am damn proud to serve this community and work with this great group of people.

One other thing, please keep helping us with reports (chk and everyone) we cant read every thread*, every post and this is your community so we really appreciate the reports though it might seem like we dont. I have even said please report your accidental double posts if it bothered you, I'll zap it (I do anyhow when I come across them)

*jees yah know [adjusts collar and tie] it aint easy I'm tellin yah, I read so much here that the other when day I joined a dating site, it asked what the last three things I read were and I said "what are you wondering about", "what made you laugh" and "The complete works of HPC"

Meffy
Skunk Mod
21314 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:11 am

In case anyone wonders, Hink and I are not twins who were separated at birth. Some minds, great or not, just happen to think alike. And I guess we're both fast typists.

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Hink
Rad Grandad
31641 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:15 am

ftr Meffy, you have been a bit of a mentor over the years and it's quite appreciated

chk071
KVRAF
24017 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:21 am

You know, Hink, to make this a bit personal, I was a bit disappointed and surprised that I got a 4 week suspension for "stalking" you, when all I did was to criticize one of your statements. Ok, fine, you're also allowed to have a bad day at the office sometimes, it just puzzles me that I read "idiot idiot idiot" on a daily base here, and nothing happens, while I get a suspension for 4 weeks for literally nothing. To be honest, that's also part of why I just won't report people here anymore. Not because I want to play butthurt, but, just because I don't feel like I can rely on justified decisions anymore. (I got suspended here 2 times now, by the way. One time, it was absolutely justified, the last one absolutely wasn't. In my opinion.)

Ok, it's all your guys' decision, you run this site, you set up the rules, you decide how you want to disengage the rules. I know it's a ungrateful, tedious job. I don't think any police officer likes to arrest people either, by the way. They just have to. For the sake of 99 % of the population, who want to live safely and comfortable, without jerks trying to destroy everything.

Anyway, for me it's rather about tolerating the ones who are on this site now.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Meffy
Skunk Mod
21314 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:28 am

Just to clarify — Ben made the rules, we don't do that. We don't run the site either, everyone does that together. We try to interpret the rules and to be fair and reasonably consistent despite wildly varying circumstances we have to apply them to.

Your input is invaluable, believe me on that.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
11379 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:29 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:21 am
You know, Hink, to make this a bit personal, I was a bit disappointed and surprised that I got a 4 week suspension for "stalking" you, when all I did was to criticize one of your statements.
Dude, give it a rest. This thread is to appreciate what these guys do for us, and frankly they don’t need to justify how they enforce the forum rules in every case.

chk071
KVRAF
24017 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:33 am

True, and I don't expect Hink to do so (justify his decision). Just saying that I was disappointed about that decision, while other people did much worse things, and speak freely every day here.

Not everything is great in Wonderland.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
11379 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Mod Appreciation Thread

Post Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:37 am

One time I completely forgot that Hink had said don’t talk about something anymore and I brought it up - I got a board warning. My next step was to apologize to Hink then get on with life. Wouldn’t do you any harm to put this behind you too.

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