NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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masterhiggins
KVRAF
2276 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:44 pm

The coupons also expire at the end of the month and can’t be used on snacks, sale items, or new menu items.

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digitalboytn
KVRAF
1770 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:01 pm

Vertion wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:21 pm
A scene from NI General Hospital:

Woman asks, “Doctor, my husband is on life support, will he make it?”

Doctor responds, “Well.. he would, but he is taking slightly too long to recover and we really need the life-support machine for newer patients with more medical coverage. This is the new official policy from the medical director. However, to accomodate you, we will give you three coupons to our cafeteria for 25% off your next purchase. Market data shows this is the most effective solution. Thank you for your understanding, visiting hours are now over. “
:lol:

Brilliant :clap:

Of course,the medical director is a bean counter with an MBA,not a medical professional :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
6162 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:49 pm

There was no malice, but careless acts of motivated self interest can still have the same impact as malicious acts.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

machinesworking
KVRAF
2324 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:44 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:49 pm
There was no malice, but careless acts of motivated self interest can still have the same impact as malicious acts.
Yeah malice is a weird term to use about a company and it's customers.
You're dead on here though, "data driven" often equals destructive policies.

IMO anyway, it should be that if I freeze my system right now, and ten years from now have to get a new computer, I should be able to instal the same OS and get the same products I paid for. Barring a company going out of business etc.

I still do not get why this is a big deal? no one is expecting to run Spektral Delay on Catalina or Windows 10 with zero issues, but if you have an older mac or PC with XP and Snow Leopard etc. you should be able to authorize Spektral Delay. Setting up a small server for the at most couple hundred people a year doing this shouldn't be an issue? Put a "use at your own risk" clause into Service center and be done with it.

highkoo
KVRAF
4115 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:37 pm

Yea, you cant blame a company as old as NI with as many products to not go for some kind of 'legacy' system. Its a compromise.
MX tho. Now that was malice.
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surreal
KVRian
1467 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:46 pm

PAK wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:24 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:19 pm
There is nothing malicious behind any of the decisions taken.
If you wouldn't call the intial decision (to discontinue activation) malicious, then what would you call it? Data driven? ;)
They Maliciously hacked my computer and destroyed service center last year Mario.... and that does not inspire confidence.. and I was told that a third of their workforce internationally were retrenched... maybe 1/5 of their workforce in Berlin was laid off

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19667 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:55 pm

surreal wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:46 pm
and I was told that a third of their workforce internationally were retrenched... maybe 1/5 of their workforce in Berlin was laid off
You were told incorrectly. NI had 500-ish people around the world before the layoffs, and 100 people (around the world, not just in Berlin office) were laid off. Do the math. :)


Now, what exactly was "hacked" on your computer by Service Center, because I find that hard to believe, as there is no malicious code in it whatsoever?

enroe
KVRian
1232 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:06 am

Vertion wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:21 pm
A scene from NI General Hospital:

Woman asks, “Doctor, my husband is on life support, will he make it?”

Doctor responds, “Well.. he would, but he is taking slightly too long to recover and we really need the life-support machine for newer patients with more medical coverage. This is the new official policy from the medical director. However, to accomodate you, we will give you three coupons to our cafeteria for 25% off your next purchase. Market data shows this is the most effective solution. Thank you for your understanding, visiting hours are now over. “
Great. Although these analogies never fit one hundred percent. :)

NI has fallen into the trap of completely underestimating user interest -
and has very carelessly made a bad decision. NI is now trying to
make up for this - as best as it can.

A fact - for studio owners and composers alike - is that even very old
synthesizers or Sound libraries - because of their uniqueness, and
because of the total recall of previous productions - are very
important. These must not simply be pulled out from under your feet.

But the whole matter has - even if NI doesn't want it to - another, more
general aspect: The credibility of terms and conditions and the
efficiency of copy protection has been considerably dampened. It
shows how a very reputable company suddenly makes decisions that
are real nightmares for some of its customers, and that even make
software purchase decisions generally problematic. :(
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de

yellowmix
KVRAF
1631 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:08 am

Native Instruments has the data to see how many people were authorizing the products and made a decision based on that. It's possible no one at all had authorized a product more than once making it seem it was not necessary. So one could say it can be anything from a lack of foresight to a lack of empathy for how other people work.

I don't have any of these products, but I am still concerned because one has to wonder about currently-supported products and what happens when they inevitably get discontinued or NI faces the bus factor. People have been burned by similar situations when smaller developers disappear and there is an erroneous assumption big corps are somewhat immune to this. This announcement crystallized that possibility.

So it is more or less confirmed that old codebases aren't easily refactored or rebuilt. So on that assumption, what is the failsafe for current products? Can they be built twice, one for release, and a private one with an "offline" DRM system that can be released if need be? But what is the failsafe for the bus factor? The serial number/local license devs are all good. Seaweed Audio is the only developer I know of that has announced a reasonable procedure for sunsetting a challenge-response system. I don't think it's tempting fate, nothing lasts forever, and I appreciate being realistic. It is aggravating when it is preventable because devs stuck their head into the ground.

It's not just NI, it's about all devs that use challenge-response DRM. But NI's the most accountable right now.

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dionenoid
KVRian
688 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:00 am

Vertion wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:21 pm
A scene from NI General Hospital:

Woman asks, “Doctor, my husband is on life support, will he make it?”

bla bla bla
You left out the part where it says that the patient is already on life support for 15 years or longer.

Plus the reactions from other patients and former patients :
"All hospitals are evil"
"I want to be able to use some antique life support system and i want the hospital to pay for it"
"I've read somewhere 20 years ago that the hospital gave 4 coupons"
"I'm using extensive vocabulaire but have no real understanding of the subject on hand"
"My nephew has a slight cough, can i have a coupon too ?"
"I heard a rumour that the doctor lost some other patients too"
"The hospital fired some nurses last year and that's why this happens"
"Everybody who has ever been in that hospital should get coupons"
"Every hospital should have tens of thousands of life support systems"
"The hospital has to keep spending money on that patient forever, but i'm not gonna pay for it"
"I was in that hospital many years ago, didn't like the carpets, and therefor i just complain in every conversation about that hospital"

You catch my drift.
More BPM please

PAK
KVRian
885 posts since 20 Feb, 2003

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:49 am

dionenoid wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:00 am
You left out the part where it says that the patient is already on life support for 15 years or longer.
It was talking in the context of empathy and "data driven" decision making. You're back hammering the old "x thousand year old" argument again.

That's NOT the issue here. The issue is COPY PROTECTION. Nothing more or less. People would rather NOT have NI involved in any way. The very best result would be to get rid of them out of the picture entirely! Just take the copy protection locks off, and give people the ability to install by themselves.

And, if they bizarrely demand that they retain full control over whether you can install this elderly software, then at least give written promises so users don't face the same issues x years down the line! But much better to modify things so we never need NI's involvement.

Get it yet? Apparently not.

teardrops
KVRer
29 posts since 30 Mar, 2020

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:18 am

What can you do. People need to make money.

robindrieghe
KVRian
649 posts since 13 Oct, 2006

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:22 am

damn.....need to sell my boxed versions from fm7 and spektral delay then but cant ship because of corona...
loads of hardware for sound creation and loads of software for effects!

User avatar
dionenoid
KVRian
688 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:24 pm

PAK wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:49 am
It was talking in the context of empathy and "data driven" decision making. You're back hammering the old "x thousand year old" argument again.

That's NOT the issue here. The issue is COPY PROTECTION. Nothing more or less. People would rather NOT have NI involved in any way. The very best result would be to get rid of them out of the picture entirely! Just take the copy protection locks off, and give people the ability to install by themselves.

And, if they bizarrely demand that they retain full control over whether you can install this elderly software, then at least give written promises so users don't face the same issues x years down the line! But much better to modify things so we never need NI's involvement.

Get it yet? Apparently not.
Cool story bro. Only the issue isn't the copy protection. The issue is that some of you think you're entitled to keep using a software product forever for free. You seem to think that even after using the products for 15 years or longer, you're still entitled to keep using it. And you even want NI to put money and resources towards it, just so you can keep using it.

That's the real issue here : A false sense of entitlement.

Get it ?
More BPM please

highkoo
KVRAF
4115 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Re: NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

Post Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:38 pm

Entitled via EULA, ffs.
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