Waveform 10.4.2 - Plugin Waves Vocal Rider Operational Query In Waveform

[Ash360]

Hi Folks,

- Win 10
- Waveform 10.4.2
- Testing Waves Vocal Rider VST3

I have a relatively well recorded vocal track.
I like the idea of using vocal rider before a little compression ... seems sensible to try it out.
No need to sidechain ... just add the vocal rider as a plugin .. set the target .. and I can see a nice little bit of fader adjustment. Note: Automation is set to Off in the plugin

The problem?
The plugin seems not to work in real time i.e. just as an insert effecting the output audio ... the audio that passes through the plugin seems unchanged. To test this I popped an identical incident of Vocal Rider next to the original (clever eh?) ... I would expect to see a lot less in fader movement because it would already have been handled by the first incident ... a test to see that the audio is being changed as expected. The 2nd vocal rider responds in the same way as the first. Ugghhh?

Is it not possible to just use vocal rider ... just as a plugin without writing automation to the track etc?

Am I missing something? Thanks folks

Regards Mark

[fde101]

I believe that particular plugin requires the use of automation to work as intended:

[Ash360]

Thanks for coming back to me on that ... appreciate it.
The video confirms at 3.25 that the vocal rider plugin can be used in real-time to level a vocal .. albeit a 'live' stream.
So the plugin is just a plugin/insert on the track ... and automatically corrects without any automation.
Trying automation ... I can't get that going either.
My instincts tell me something is wrong.

Are there any waveform 10 users who can actually get vocal rider to work on Waveform in any capacity whatsoever.
I mean getting an end result NOT the fader going up and down ~ it goes through the motions but does nothing

Thanks Mark

[chico.co.uk]

You could render the track with Vocal Rider on it to audio, then compare it to the track before you did that, you should be able to see differences in the waveform and/or hear the differences when you play them both back. Possibly test with really extreme settings.

[Peter Widdicombe]

What kind of vocal input (mike) are you using? Any chance it or something else in the path is already doing any sort of gain control? Verify be having an audio take where you move the microphone a few feet away, and then right up close. The difference in the raw recording should be apparent in the wave envelope, and see if waverider smoothes that out.

[Ash360]

@Peter
Actually I'm processing a pre-recorded track so that's not relevant in this case. Thankyou though.

@chico
I did record a test bit of vocal ... moving backwards and forwards to the mike ... lots of level change. Applied vocal rider ... no change .. I put another vocal rider next to the other vocal rider ... reacts the same way ... shouldn't react at all.

I think I need a proof-of-concept ... like has anyone made Vocal rider work In Tracktion Waveform.

Thanks Everyone

[chico.co.uk]

Okay, try this. Get a mono vocal track, with a lot of difference between levels (like you described)

Add vocal rider to the track, set it to Fast, turn the music dial to off, leave the vocal dial at 0.
Set the target quite a bit lower than your peaks (and hopefully, sustained loud parts) are, so it should bring them down. Make the range as wide as possible.

Then when you've done that, highlight the clip, and in the properties panel, choose "Render clip" then "Render the selected clip", from the popup menu. Then in the render options, turn off Stereo, so it renders it to a mono clip. From the Add Render Options, choose "Insert into this track". Hit Render, and you'll end up with two clips on the track, one called whatever your original clip was called, the other called something along the lines of "Rendered clipling 1".

If you right click on the clip in the track, you will see an option for "bring obscured clip to front". Toggle between that (there's a keyboard shortcut listed there), and compare the two waveforms. If they're not different enough, use undo (Ctrl-Z) to remove the rendered clip, and repeat the process, but change the Target slider in Vocal Rider to be more or less

The effect isn't dramatic, but you should see differences between the two clips. It seems to be more dramatic at bringing loud volume down, than bringing quiet volume up, in the limited test I did with it.

Here's my results. The white waveform, in the background, is the original clip. The pink waveform, in the foreground, is the rendered clip, after going through vocal rider.

Screenshot 2020-04-11 at 23.28.08.jpg

It's not just an overall gain reduction, try selecting the rendered clip, then in the clip properties, look for the gain slider, and increase or decrease the gain on the clip, till one of the "bubbles" in the waveform in the rendered clip is the same as the equivalent in the original clip. When I do that, not all the others match. Some are still significantly larger, or smaller.

I think it's quite a subtle effect. I'm not sure I have a great use for it, tbh. Maybe I need to experiment with it more ...