Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

[5G DEATH BEAM]

Considering how successful Ableton is I'm wondering why they're so slow to release updates/new features. Is there a specific reason for this?

Ask yourself this, why did a handful of their best developers leave Ableton for greener pastures, by starting Bitwig and now ultimately shaking up the music industry by making their own rules?

[whyterabbyt]

Considering how successful Ableton is I'm wondering why they're so slow to release updates/new features. Is there a specific reason for this?

Ask yourself this, why did a handful of their best developers leave Ableton for greener pastures, by starting Bitwig and now ultimately shaking up the music industry by making their own rules?

So when is this bit supposed to have happened? And how exactly was 'the music industry' shaken up?
How much greener were those pastures? (You know, given that they're making about a fifth of the revenue of Ableton with a third of the employees?) Is it just greener for them rather than their employees? Because they started it? Which might be why they started it?

And what were those rules they made up? You know, apart from "Hey rule 1 is we leave for greener pastures so our 12-year-old fanbois insist we've shaken up the music industry by basically iterating the Ableton Live design a little bit."

[whyterabbyt]

Considering how successful Ableton is I'm wondering why they're so slow to release updates/new features. Is there a specific reason for this?

Because they seem to be spending their time doing lots of betatest versions?

https://www.ableton.com/de/release-notes/live-10-beta/

[revvy]

Cruel but fair.

[Reefius]

Ask yourself this, why did a handful of their best developers leave Ableton for greener pastures, by starting Bitwig and now ultimately shaking up the music industry by making their own rules?

Back with another new account?

[Distorted Horizon]

Ableton is the new FLStudio

[Dirtgrain]

. . . by basically iterating the Ableton Live design a little bit."

So far in demoing Bitwig, this rings true. I know all DAWS have things in common, but Bitwig similarity to Live is pretty strong.

[mcnelson]

So we are talking about Bitwig 1-3.1 with much bug fixing and very very big feature updates vs. 9.1-10.1 with not so very much feature updates (for me nothing really groundbreaking) on Ableton´s side...

9.5 introduced the cytomic filters, new Simpler, improved metering and new M4L essentials.
10.0 introduced new devices (Wavetable!), Capture, Group improvements, Library Tagging, new M4L devices.
10.1 brought VST 3 support, improved automation and modulation, new devices, improved sidechain support, sidechain freeze support.

Not an exhaustive list, but clearly a great deal of improvement for your average Live user.

[antic604]

You know, given that they're making about a fifth of the revenue of Ableton with a third of the employees?

Where are you getting this info from? Bitwig has around 15 employees, Ableton I'm pretty sure well over 100 if not 200.

And why engage with that guy - it's his 3rd account this week and it's only a Tuesday

[antic604]

. . . by basically iterating the Ableton Live design a little bit."

So far in demoing Bitwig, this rings true. I know all DAWS have things in common, but Bitwig similarity to Live is pretty strong.

On the surface, sure.

[Trancit]

9.5 introduced the cytomic filters, new Simpler, improved metering and new M4L essentials.
10.0 introduced new devices (Wavetable!), Capture, Group improvements, Library Tagging, new M4L devices.
10.1 brought VST 3 support, improved automation and modulation, new devices, improved sidechain support, sidechain freeze support.

Not an exhaustive list, but clearly a great deal of improvement for your average Live user.

https://www.bitwig.com/en/previous_releases
Just read the with "NEW" marked entries of the major and "point" releases (means 1.1, 1.2 etc...)

Hundreds of important changes to the core programm, new or much improved devices in the same developing time...

On top of that... : everybody compares always Ableton Suite to Bitwig, which is more than double as expensive...

Because of being regulary on sale it´s more fair to compare the normal Ableton Live version to Bitwig... means no M4L, no Sampler, no Wavetable, no Glue comp etc...etc...

If the same money is spent, Ableton is a joke compared to Bitwig... perhaps not unimportant for some trying to make a decision between these 2...

[dreamstate42]

Out of curiosity, why are some Bitwig users hellbent on trying to convince others of "how much better Bitwig is than Live" or that "in direct comparison, Bitwig 'wins'"? In the end, it's about personal workflow, not feature list length or development speed (if so, there would ever be only one product for any particular need).

[machinesworking]

Out of curiosity, why are some Bitwig users hellbent on trying to convince others of "how much better Bitwig is than Live" or that "in direct comparison, Bitwig 'wins'"? In the end, it's about personal workflow, not feature list length or development speed (if so, there would ever be only one product for any particular need).

This is false assumption to me anyway. workflow is great, important for sure, but features are the deciding factor.

I have older computers, so Bitwigs better CPU handling matters.

Someone might want to do video presentations in live performance, then Live is hands down better.

You might get tired of plug ins crashing and appreciate sandboxing in Bitwig.

You might use rewire with another DAW, then Live is going to be the obvious choice.

There are hardly any terrible workflow DAWs out there anymore, some just slightly better, some easier to learn faster, some faster workflows take more time to learn, it's something I wish UX people would figure out and stop flatly dumbing things down for ease of use.. but lack of features can cause a bad workflow, and DAWs all have different strengths and weaknesses.

[antic604]

Out of curiosity, why are some Bitwig users hellbent on trying to convince others of "how much better Bitwig is than Live" or that "in direct comparison, Bitwig 'wins'"? In the end, it's about personal workflow, not feature list length or development speed (if so, there would ever be only one product for any particular need).

Some are, just like some Live users won't miss an occassion to point out how Bitwig copied Live, how it doesn't have M4L or how much smaller and lower profile its user base is.

Most are reasonable & usually use or were using multiple DAWs.

[thecontrolcentre]

Hundreds of important changes to the core programm, new or much improved devices in the same developing time...

If you're happy to pay a subscription to be a beta tester for a program that needs hundreds of improvements that's up to you. Why so obsessed with telling people who use a different program how great your choice is?