Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

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5G DEATH BEAM
Banned
2 posts since 6 Apr, 2020

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:01 am

docbot wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:44 pm
Considering how successful Ableton is I'm wondering why they're so slow to release updates/new features. Is there a specific reason for this?
Ask yourself this, why did a handful of their best developers leave Ableton for greener pastures, by starting Bitwig and now ultimately shaking up the music industry by making their own rules?

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
28315 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:20 am

5G DEATH BEAM wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:01 am
docbot wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:44 pm
Considering how successful Ableton is I'm wondering why they're so slow to release updates/new features. Is there a specific reason for this?
Ask yourself this, why did a handful of their best developers leave Ableton for greener pastures, by starting Bitwig and now ultimately shaking up the music industry by making their own rules?
So when is this bit supposed to have happened? And how exactly was 'the music industry' shaken up?
How much greener were those pastures? (You know, given that they're making about a fifth of the revenue of Ableton with a third of the employees?) Is it just greener for them rather than their employees? Because they started it? Which might be why they started it?

And what were those rules they made up? You know, apart from "Hey rule 1 is we leave for greener pastures so our 12-year-old fanbois insist we've shaken up the music industry by basically iterating the Ableton Live design a little bit."
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
28315 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:26 am

docbot wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:44 pm
Considering how successful Ableton is I'm wondering why they're so slow to release updates/new features. Is there a specific reason for this?
Because they seem to be spending their time doing lots of betatest versions?

https://www.ableton.com/de/release-notes/live-10-beta/
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

revvy
KVRian
1042 posts since 15 Feb, 2020

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:30 am

Cruel but fair.
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Reefius
KVRian
982 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:40 am

5G DEATH BEAM wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:01 am
Ask yourself this, why did a handful of their best developers leave Ableton for greener pastures, by starting Bitwig and now ultimately shaking up the music industry by making their own rules?
Back with another new account? :P

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3860 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:42 am

Ableton is the new FLStudio 8)

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Dirtgrain
KVRian
873 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:38 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:20 am
. . . by basically iterating the Ableton Live design a little bit."
So far in demoing Bitwig, this rings true. I know all DAWS have things in common, but Bitwig similarity to Live is pretty strong.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - Hunter S. Thompson

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mcnelson
KVRian
1191 posts since 26 Mar, 2004 from UK

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:42 am

Trancit wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:12 pm
So we are talking about Bitwig 1-3.1 with much bug fixing and very very big feature updates vs. 9.1-10.1 with not so very much feature updates (for me nothing really groundbreaking) on Ableton´s side...
9.5 introduced the cytomic filters, new Simpler, improved metering and new M4L essentials.
10.0 introduced new devices (Wavetable!), Capture, Group improvements, Library Tagging, new M4L devices.
10.1 brought VST 3 support, improved automation and modulation, new devices, improved sidechain support, sidechain freeze support.

Not an exhaustive list, but clearly a great deal of improvement for your average Live user.
ABLETON LIVE 10 & PUSH2: TWISTED TOOLS : SONIC CHARGE : SUGAR BYTES
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antic604
KVRAF
5180 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:44 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:20 am
You know, given that they're making about a fifth of the revenue of Ableton with a third of the employees?
Where are you getting this info from? Bitwig has around 15 employees, Ableton I'm pretty sure well over 100 if not 200.

And why engage with that guy - it's his 3rd account this week and it's only a Tuesday :D
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604
KVRAF
5180 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:45 pm

Dirtgrain wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:38 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:20 am
. . . by basically iterating the Ableton Live design a little bit."
So far in demoing Bitwig, this rings true. I know all DAWS have things in common, but Bitwig similarity to Live is pretty strong.
On the surface, sure.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Trancit
KVRAF
2745 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:50 pm

mcnelson wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:42 am
9.5 introduced the cytomic filters, new Simpler, improved metering and new M4L essentials.
10.0 introduced new devices (Wavetable!), Capture, Group improvements, Library Tagging, new M4L devices.
10.1 brought VST 3 support, improved automation and modulation, new devices, improved sidechain support, sidechain freeze support.

Not an exhaustive list, but clearly a great deal of improvement for your average Live user.
https://www.bitwig.com/en/previous_releases
Just read the with "NEW" marked entries of the major and "point" releases (means 1.1, 1.2 etc...)

Hundreds of important changes to the core programm, new or much improved devices in the same developing time...

On top of that... : everybody compares always Ableton Suite to Bitwig, which is more than double as expensive...

Because of being regulary on sale it´s more fair to compare the normal Ableton Live version to Bitwig... means no M4L, no Sampler, no Wavetable, no Glue comp etc...etc...

If the same money is spent, Ableton is a joke compared to Bitwig... perhaps not unimportant for some trying to make a decision between these 2...

dreamstate42
KVRist
59 posts since 13 Jan, 2019

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:26 pm

Out of curiosity, why are some Bitwig users hellbent on trying to convince others of "how much better Bitwig is than Live" or that "in direct comparison, Bitwig 'wins'"? In the end, it's about personal workflow, not feature list length or development speed (if so, there would ever be only one product for any particular need).
Frequently changing DAW of choice...

machinesworking
KVRAF
2349 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:39 pm

dreamstate42 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:26 pm
Out of curiosity, why are some Bitwig users hellbent on trying to convince others of "how much better Bitwig is than Live" or that "in direct comparison, Bitwig 'wins'"? In the end, it's about personal workflow, not feature list length or development speed (if so, there would ever be only one product for any particular need).
This is false assumption to me anyway. workflow is great, important for sure, but features are the deciding factor.

I have older computers, so Bitwigs better CPU handling matters.

Someone might want to do video presentations in live performance, then Live is hands down better.

You might get tired of plug ins crashing and appreciate sandboxing in Bitwig.

You might use rewire with another DAW, then Live is going to be the obvious choice.

There are hardly any terrible workflow DAWs out there anymore, some just slightly better, some easier to learn faster, some faster workflows take more time to learn, it's something I wish UX people would figure out and stop flatly dumbing things down for ease of use.. but lack of features can cause a bad workflow, and DAWs all have different strengths and weaknesses.

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antic604
KVRAF
5180 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:39 pm

dreamstate42 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:26 pm
Out of curiosity, why are some Bitwig users hellbent on trying to convince others of "how much better Bitwig is than Live" or that "in direct comparison, Bitwig 'wins'"? In the end, it's about personal workflow, not feature list length or development speed (if so, there would ever be only one product for any particular need).
Some are, just like some Live users won't miss an occassion to point out how Bitwig copied Live, how it doesn't have M4L or how much smaller and lower profile its user base is.

Most are reasonable & usually use or were using multiple DAWs.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
27496 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:44 pm

Trancit wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:50 pm
Hundreds of important changes to the core programm, new or much improved devices in the same developing time...
If you're happy to pay a subscription to be a beta tester for a program that needs hundreds of improvements that's up to you. Why so obsessed with telling people who use a different program how great your choice is? :shrug:

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