Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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antic604
KVRAF
5114 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:14 am
Audio rate modulation is brought up about Bitwig over and over. Every time, I go and seek out examples . . . and find nothing that doesn't sound like something I can already get to by other means. Anybody have a great example of a unique sound that audio rate modulation can create?
Typical use of audio rate modulation in Bitwig (besides trickery like using DC Offset as a oscillator, routing device or to 'freeze' otherwise random modulation to "fixed" automation) is FM and - unsurprisingly - you can achieve that in many synths. The point is, in Bitwig you can do that with native devices (and VSTs that accept audio-rate modulation), so - for example - you can modulate at audio rate an oscillator's phase (PM), pitch (FM) or amplitude (AM); filter's cutoff and/or resonance and many other parameters with any audio source: LFOs & envelopes, samples, audio signal produced on other tracks, live input, etc.

But this IMO has nothing to do with the subject of this topic :)
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Trancit
KVRAF
2741 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 am

GaryG wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:44 am
this is where it's all horses for courses, I can't imagine going back to cutting the audio up onto separate tracks just to apply different effects, that's how we did it in the 90s... ;)
For item FX you have to cut up the audio anyway... otherwise you could leave the fx on the track...

What is the difference between:
- fiddeling with small snippets,
- have to zoom in to select them to be able to insert any fx,
- to repeat this everytime you want to edit them
- having to rename and/or colourcode them to be able to remember what does what

or putting them on seperate tracks, always having the overview what is what over the whole timeline...
Grabbing and copying to other places is much easier too...

This is far away from 90`s workflow...

tooneba
KVRian
1358 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:14 am

Imagine you have 10 different snippets for 5 segments of the song. You have to scroll 40 tracks up and down when you re-use snippets (No.10) with (No.50).

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antic604
KVRAF
5114 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:16 am

Trancit wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 am
For item FX you have to cut up the audio anyway...
Of use FX Layer in Bitwig or FX Rack's Chain Selectors in Live - that's the XXI century workflow ;) :D
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604
KVRAF
5114 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:21 am

tooneba wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:14 am
Imagine you have 10 different snippets for 5 segments of the song. You have to scroll 40 tracks up and down when you re-use snippets (No.10) with (No.50).
Why would you do that? Are you applying 40 different "per-item FXs" to single audio track?
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

tooneba
KVRian
1358 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:47 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:21 am
tooneba wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:14 am
Imagine you have 10 different snippets for 5 segments of the song. You have to scroll 40 tracks up and down when you re-use snippets (No.10) with (No.50).
Why would you do that? Are you applying 40 different "per-item FXs" to single audio track?
I don't use reaper so I can't speak for the users but I use different FX for snippets. I like using many different small foley audio for adding color. I could prepare audios beforehand and place them in a single track but leaving an ability to access to effects is handy.

Trancit
KVRAF
2741 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:14 am

tooneba wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:14 am
Imagine you have 10 different snippets for 5 segments of the song. You have to scroll 40 tracks up and down when you re-use snippets (No.10) with (No.50).
1. who´s telling you that you don´t want to reuse many of the fx you´ve got already
1b. Please don´t tell me it would me more a pleasure to search in all this snippets horizontally for the one you want to treat...
2. Did I say grouping of tracks??? I am pretty sure I did say something about grouping...
3. Do you heard already something about commiting to decisions??? Who on earth would let all this online all the time...
You work on a segment of the song and render this changes out... disable the tracks, hide them and there´s just 1 audio file on one track left...

Sorry but you wrote complete unrealistic stuff... if you work this way you should really try to streamline a lot of stuff... it heps with many headaches... :hug:

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Dirtgrain
KVRian
840 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:34 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 am
But this IMO has nothing to do with the subject of this topic :
Apparently, every thread is a place to discuss Bitwig's audio rate modulation capabilities--but not a place to put up audio examples of it. I hear about all the time. I am demoing Bitwig right now, and it's not getting me anywhere I can't already get. So, I ask for some examples of unique outcomes from using audio rate modulation. I wouldn't mind having it in Live, but I don't know that I would use it often, sometimes, or at all.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - Hunter S. Thompson

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antic604
KVRAF
5114 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:49 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:34 am
antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 am
But this IMO has nothing to do with the subject of this topic :
Apparently, every thread is a place to discuss Bitwig's audio rate modulation capabilities--but not a place to put up audio examples of it. I hear about all the time. I am demoing Bitwig right now, and it's not getting me anywhere I can't already get. So, I ask for some examples of unique outcomes from using audio rate modulation. I wouldn't mind having it in Live, but I don't know that I would use it often, sometimes, or at all.
As I said - it's not something you haven't heard before. It's not a unique, novel sound like FM synthesis was 50 years ago. It's just a native, flexible and fun way to modulate one thing with the other thing at audio rate, applicable throughout the whole DAW and not limited to what given VST's dev decided.

Whether that appeals to you or not depends entirely on how sound-design heavy your music is. I'm always stumped to read people trying Bitwig and complaining it doesn't have comping, pitch editor, expression maps, VCA faders, musical notation. Well, duh?! You're considering Bitwig for the wrong reason, then! You don't see me trying Cubase to get mad that it doesn't do clip launching, modulation (incl. audio-rate ;) ), complex device chains or generative MIDI and audio FX? The fact both are called DAWs doesn't mean their strengths (and weaknesses) are in the same spots.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Calenberger
KVRian
1425 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:07 am

Really interested to hear some clips or tracks about these features.
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Forgotten
KVRAF
11472 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:14 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:34 am
antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 am
But this IMO has nothing to do with the subject of this topic :
Apparently, every thread is a place to discuss Bitwig's audio rate modulation capabilities
...and Reaper. Don't forget that every thread is also a place to ask if you have tried Reaper...

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antic604
KVRAF
5114 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:24 am

Calenberger wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:07 am
Really interested to hear some clips or tracks about these features.
Image
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Spencer Maddox
KVRian
747 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:53 am

Covid Lockdown idea:
Take a shot every time Bitwig comes up in an ableton thread.

Oh and also in my expierence ableton is the best DAW for audio manipulation in a creative way. By far. Not even a competition in that regard, with how easy it is to stretch and sample and mangle and whatnot.

Can we get ARA2 please tho :cry:
Literally the only think I think is BADLY missing from live.
I can live without the piano roll features or MPE, but ARA2 is so needed.
80% KVR
20% Making Music

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Forgotten
KVRAF
11472 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:39 am

Spencer Maddox wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:53 am
Covid Lockdown idea:
Take a shot every time Bitwig comes up in an ableton thread.
I think the deaths from alcohol poisoning would soon overtake the COVID-19 deaths if we did that...

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vurt
addled muppet weed
65399 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:54 am

Forgotten wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:39 am
Spencer Maddox wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:53 am
Covid Lockdown idea:
Take a shot every time Bitwig comes up in an ableton thread.
I think the deaths from alcohol poisoning would soon overtake the COVID-19 deaths if we did that...
shut your bitwig!

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