BITWIG charged my money from credit card and no response......

[antic604]

I'm sure someone in marketing thought "let's have this and rely on inertia to maintain an income stream" but it reflects poorly on the company.

This actually reflects very well on a company from the business point of view. And the fact that it's NOT on by default makes it even more positive, this time from their client's point of view. The only negative is you can't access the state and on/off button easily, i.e. from your user account.

I personally never used that option, but then again I'm paid up until end of 2021 already and I'm considering getting another once since I just sold Live 10 Suite, so...

Again, those are choices we're presented with and it's on us to consider them and make (or not) them. You can't really decide that one of them is wrong because someone made it in error.

[Gamma-UT]

Again, those are choices we're presented with and it's on us to consider them and make (or not) them. You can't really decide that one of them is wrong because someone made it in error.

When a choice is presented that makes little practical sense to the user and can easily be selected by mistake (with no warning of what is about to happen before the money is taken), I think it's fairly easy to say it's not the right choice.

Can you think of a situation where someone would be able to say "auto-renew on Bitwig saved my bacon"?

[SLiC]

Auto-renew is just a convenience 'option', you dont have to select it, it makes no sense to select it if you dont know what it is and there has (as far as I know) only been one person who has posted that selected it by mistake so I think it is realy is a none-issue.

[antic604]

When a choice is presented that makes little practical sense to the user and can easily be selected by mistake (with no warning of what is about to happen before the money is taken), I think it's fairly easy to say it's not the right choice.

Can you think of a situation where someone would be able to say "auto-renew on Bitwig saved my bacon"?

Sure! If someone wants to support Bitwig devs on a perpetual basis disregarding the update release cycle, i.e. next release after their current plan runs out is 4 months out, yet still they want to pay in practice "losing" money for 4 months.

Like I said, I'm sort of in this group, having bought and activated 2 upgrade plans, even though I could keep one of them in my mailbox and only apply it when new version in 2021 comes out. Actually if I only acted by logic I could keep both of the plans inactive to this day, because I got v3 for "free" and I didn't liked most of things in v3.1 at all, yet I upgraded to get it.

Obviously you can say I'm irrational or even stupid in my decisions, but they've been made consciously and are based on my - for lack of a better word - "morally" driven preferences to support the underdogs: Bitwig, S1, Reason. The same way I don't subscribe to Spotify for EUR5 a month or whatever to get almost unlimited access to HUGE catalogue of music and instead I pay EUR10-12 per album on Bandcamp, directly to artists & labels. Do I hate Spotify for giving that choice to billions of people and screwing up artists? Sure, but I won't forbid them to do it or judge anyone making that choice (Ok, I do the last one )

So yeah - a presented choice might make little sense to you, but not to somebody else. I know I'm in small minority both with regards to Bitwig support or Spotify vs. Bandcamp, but that's my right and I'm happy I have those choices.

[excuse me please]

People make mistakes, therefore Bitwig has an 'undo' option. Seems legit.
Then again, by pushing some button in Windows, the initial option goes something like: 'are you sure?'

In other words: this is a big mistake by Bitwig. Extremely aggressive approach for selling stuff, I'd say.

[dellboy]

Auto-renew is just a convenience 'option', you dont have to select it, it makes no sense to select it if you dont know what it is and there has (as far as I know) only been one person who has posted that selected it by mistake so I think it is realy is a none-issue.

Without wasting time doing a search I seem to to remember this happening before with this "2CO" company. Someone started a thread about Bitwigs new subscription plan because they had been auto renewed.

[SLiC]

People make mistakes, therefore Bitwig has an 'undo' option. Seems legit.
Then again, by pushing some button in Windows, the initial option goes something like: 'are you sure?'

In other words: this is a big mistake by Bitwig. Extremely aggressive approach for selling stuff, I'd say.

Seriously, offering 'an option' that requires the user to take an action to select it is not extremely aggressive.

[Gamma-UT]

Like I said, I'm sort of in this group, having bought and activated 2 upgrade plans, even though I could keep one of them in my mailbox and only apply it when new version in 2021 comes out. Actually if I only acted by logic I could keep both of the plans inactive to this day, because I got v3 for "free" and I didn't liked most of things in v3.1 at all, yet I upgraded to get it.

So, auto-renew was no good for you either because you're not going to be able to get the money early to Bitwig through multiple plans simply by using auto-renew.

[antic604]

People make mistakes, therefore Bitwig has an 'undo' option. Seems legit.
Then again, by pushing some button in Windows, the initial option goes something like: 'are you sure?'

In other words: this is a big mistake by Bitwig. Extremely aggressive approach for selling stuff, I'd say.

Seriously, offering 'an option' that requires the user to take an action to select it is not extremely aggressive.

What world are you living in?? People have been getting huge payouts because comapnies have not warned them to not wash their cat in washing machine or that a coffe cup might be hot! Taking personal responsibility* is a regressive, backwards thinking! You gotta move on with the times!

* yes, I've been reading & watching Jordan B. Peterson way too much lately

[SLiC]

It is not subscription, it is an option to auto-renew to the 12 month update plan

https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/new-license-model.html

I person can not see any advantage in auto-renew at all for the following reasons:

1 - Even to stay complete current you only need to update about once every 16-18 months (as there may be 4-6 months or so witout an update so you already have the latest version)
2- Updates are often further discounted on other sellers sites (I think I paid 108 USD last time and got 18 month out of it before I didn't have the 'latest' version)
3- You may not want the current updates offered, they may not be interesting or useful to you, so why update? This is NOT subscription unless you want it to be.

That said, other may prefer it and some want to support Bitwig an are not looking for value/bargains (hats off to those people) and are 'all in' so they have every right to have that 'option' and we should not need to remove it, freedom of choice and all that!

[antic604]

So, auto-renew was no good for you either because you're not going to be able to the money early to Bitwig through multiple plans simply by using auto-renew.

Laugh all you want

[Gamma-UT]

What world are you living in?? People have been getting huge payouts because comapnies have not warned them to not wash their cat in washing machine or that a coffe cup might be hot! Taking personal responsibility* is a regressive, backwards thinking! You gotta move on with the times!

"Big payout for hot coffee". That old chestnut rises again. MaccyDs paid out because that coffee caused third-degree burns having been superheated because the company thinks it's a good idea. Stella Liebeck needed skin grafts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v ... estaurants

Lay off the Jordan Peterson, it's bad for you.

[antic604]

What world are you living in?? People have been getting huge payouts because comapnies have not warned them to not wash their cat in washing machine or that a coffe cup might be hot! Taking personal responsibility* is a regressive, backwards thinking! You gotta move on with the times!

"Big payout for hot coffee". That old chestnut rises again. MaccyDs paid out because that coffee caused third-degree burns having been superheated because the company thinks it's a good idea. Stella Liebeck needed skin grafts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v ... estaurants

Lay off the Jordan Peterson, it's bad for you.

How is 82-88 deg. Celssius "superheated"?? Have you ever made tea or coffee at home?

[slackhead]

Lay off the Jordan Peterson, it's bad for you.

Which, ironically, is exactly what the man him self has found out in recent times.

[Gamma-UT]

How is 82-88 deg. Celssius "superheated"?? Have you ever made tea or coffee at home?

The average hotplate on a coffee machine is about ten degrees lower than that.

This is serving temperature, not brewing temperature, Einstein.