Korg Collection (V2.0 released, GUI update!)

[kritikon]

Now I've got permission from an old hand to start with current presets I feel less guilty

Clicking around has revealed some of how to program the thing but it's not the most intuitive interface ever. Sounds gorgeous tho.

Intuitive doesn't even come close
If it's any help - to learn the WS - isolate one wavesequence and silence all the others - if it's a patch using the joystick for mixing the waves, you can just flick the joystick hard left or right or up or down to do that. Then at least you can can concentrate on how a wavesequence is put together (putting a sequence on loop will help - if it isn't already).
TBH putting patches together is reasonably sensible - just a case of layering osc into parts and layering parts into patches. Off the top of my head, programming the joystick is reasonably sensible too - you just pick your start point by twiddling the joystick to where you want and you can either twiddle it to the next point or draw it in by numbers (use the joystick).

There are some neat little tricks you can do to get things like weird chorussing or mod FX buy creating 2 wavesequences identical - then slightly alter the steps in the second one to samples in the same group or very similar - even use the same sequence but make the step lengths ever so slightly longer in one than the other, and loop them at slightly different points.

Oh, and one other thing - use good FX on them. The WS FX are OK - some actually quite distinctive, but especially those little tinkly subtle long sequences used for ethereal pads - put them through a decent Lexicon reverb or similar and they just shine at a different level. I'd forgotten how so many of those old 80s/90s digital synths sounded so boxy and muddy with their own FX. Put WS choral pads through a decent chorus instead of Korg's own and you'll be surprised at how good those vocal patches really are (and strings - mix a wavesequence of strings morphing into voices - bliss!). 32 osc patches of slightly different sequences all morphing into strings and voices at different pitches and you have your own choir on one key.

[revvy]

Now I've got permission from an old hand to start with current presets I feel less guilty

Clicking around has revealed some of how to program the thing but it's not the most intuitive interface ever. Sounds gorgeous tho.

Intuitive doesn't even come close
If it's any help - to learn the WS - isolate one wavesequence and silence all the others - if it's a patch using the joystick for mixing the waves, you can just flick the joystick hard left or right or up or down to do that. Then at least you can can concentrate on how a wavesequence is put together (putting a sequence on loop will help - if it isn't already).
TBH putting patches together is reasonably sensible - just a case of layering osc into parts and layering parts into patches. Off the top of my head, programming the joystick is reasonably sensible too - you just pick your start point by twiddling the joystick to where you want and you can either twiddle it to the next point or draw it in by numbers (use the joystick).

There are some neat little tricks you can do to get things like weird chorussing or mod FX buy creating 2 wavesequences identical - then slightly alter the steps in the second one to samples in the same group or very similar - even use the same sequence but make the step lengths ever so slightly longer in one than the other, and loop them at slightly different points.

Oh, and one other thing - use good FX on them. The WS FX are OK - some actually quite distinctive, but especially those little tinkly subtle long sequences used for ethereal pads - put them through a decent Lexicon reverb or similar and they just shine at a different level. I'd forgotten how so many of those old 80s/90s digital synths sounded so boxy and muddy with their own FX. Put WS choral pads through a decent chorus instead of Korg's own and you'll be surprised at how good those vocal patches really are (and strings - mix a wavesequence of strings morphing into voices - bliss!). 32 osc patches of slightly different sequences all morphing into strings and voices at different pitches and you have your own choir on one key.

Food for thought there, thanks for the input mate.

[Hermetech Mastering]

Check my programming tips from an earlier post too. It's complex, but not impossible, to program things from scratch. It was my first synth in 1992 so I didn't know anything else.

The trouble with the WS (bought my first EX new in 1992, was my first synth, learned synthesis on it, bought my second EX second hand in 2007, and now only use the plug), is that it has a REALLY overly hierarchical programming structure. Waves and WaveSequences, become Oscillators, four of which can be stacked and used in a Patch with Vector Synthesis modulation, and eight of those those Patches can then be stacked in a Performance with associated effects, keyboard and velocity zones. You have loads of modulation sources and destinations at every level. It's a huge headache, for sure, overly complicated.

Aside from the obvious (go through the manual, go through some Patches and see how they are put together, read the SOS articles, although the early reviews aren't online, read Dan Phillips web page), choose a complete RAM bank, let's say RAM3, and make it your Init bank, you can find a blank sysex bank and load it in. That's everything Init from WaveSequences to Performances. Create a starting Patch with all regular analogue subtraction stuff set wide open, Amp and Filter etc.

1) Start with a single oscillator Patch, and just go through all the individual Waves, there are hundreds of them, so it might take a while, but will give you a good idea of what's available. Don't forget the Card waveforms too! You might start realising that some waves kinda belong together, in their name and/or sound, and that will give you ideas for the next stage. I had them all printed out and then highlighted interesting waves and sets of waves.

2) Same single oscillator Patch, but this time start building a WaveSequence from scratch. There is so much possibility just here, it's quite incredible. From analogue style pitch sequences, to rhythmic drum stuff, to D50 style percussive transient wed to looped body sound, to slowly evolving drones and vocal sounds etc. Get to grips with how the WaveSequences work and all their parameters. It's great in the plugin that you can click and drag the timings and crossfades etc.

3) Next try a four oscillator Patch and start getting to grips with the Vector Synthesis, which adds a whole new layer of complexity. A good starter is to have four different slowly evolving WaveSequence drones for Oscillators 1-4, and then start crossfading between them with the Joystick, then play around with how you can automatically crossfade between the WaveSequences with the crazy Mix Envelope controls, you can "draw in a path" for the crossfading to follow, loop it etc. This is how the Prophet VS worked, just with the static Waves, so you could give that a try too, just using four different Waves, instead of WaveSequences.

4) Start stacking the Patches together in Performances with the Effects and Key/Velocity Zones etc. The Reverbs won't win any prizes these days, but I am sometimes still astounded by just how good some of the other stuff sounds, the Choruses and Panning etc. I think there's also another Resonant Filter (see below) sounding thing hiding in the EQ algorithm.

That should help you grok the main hierarchy from most simple to most complex. From there the sky is the limit. The joy with the plugins is of course you can ramp up the polyphony to 256, which is just insane (my EXs had 32 I think), add that to eight part multi-timbrality, with each part having up to four oscillators (which could also be WaveSequences), and then you play a massive chord, and, well, you get the idea...

Don't forget the plugin also has a kinda secret Resonant Filter mode, on the Filter Page, that none of the hardware ever had (it was always one of the main complaints about the WS). Go to Exciter Mode and turn it to Resonance. It turns the Exciter amount into a Res amount control. Also won't win any awards for analogue style sound, but it can totally work with some old presets and make them sound very different.

Also, try to find the old Paul Osborn presets if you can. I've scanned through many different banks since 1992, and that dude's have been the ones I often come back to again and again. He REALLY pushed it further than anyone else, with the combos of WaveSequencing and Vector Synthesis. Also loads of 70's style analogue string synth and pad style Performances that sound incredible and alive. There were DreamWaves 1 & 2 and TranceWaves 1 & 2.

I made a track about 12 years ago that features many of Paul Osborn's presets tweaked, can hear it here, most of the swirly sequenced sounding bits are straight outta the WS-EX I had at the time.:

https://babaluma.bandcamp.com/track/the ... epathy-mix

Do note if you load a whole RAM bank in (ALL data), you usually need to load it into RAM1 for it to work properly. If you load it into to RAM2 the Patches will be pointing towards RAM1 WaveSequences and Patches and it will sound totally wrong. It's one of the nightmares about having such an overly hierarchical synth architecture, and why if you want to mix and match WaveSequences or Patches from different RAM banks, a great Librarian software will be essential. This is why I recommended you keep you own Init Bank as RAM2 or RAM3, then you can use RAM1 for always loading other people's banks/presets into, and they should just work.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... techniques

http://www.danphillips.com/wavestation/

Hopefully some good starting points, but it's an extremely deep and complex beast!

[revvy]

Edit: tons of good stuff

Cheers man, very useful indeed

[risome]

The Wavestation as a single product seems to have disappeared off the Korg Shop,Only showing in the bundle?

https://korg.shop/software/korg-collect ... ation.html

That's a great price for the WS ...

Thanks for the link but it had disappeared for a while there.I have owned most of the collection for many years now.Still have my original 30 yr old MS-20 hardware synth and had a hardware Wavestation when they first came out so was considering adding the software Wavestation.

[risome]

Check my programming tips from an earlier post too. It's complex, but not impossible, to program things from scratch. It was my first synth in 1992 so I didn't know anything else.

The trouble with the WS (bought my first EX new in 1992, was my first synth, learned synthesis on it, bought my second EX second hand in 2007, and now only use the plug), is that it has a REALLY overly hierarchical programming structure. Waves and WaveSequences, become Oscillators, four of which can be stacked and used in a Patch with Vector Synthesis modulation, and eight of those those Patches can then be stacked in a Performance with associated effects, keyboard and velocity zones. You have loads of modulation sources and destinations at every level. It's a huge headache, for sure, overly complicated.

Aside from the obvious (go through the manual, go through some Patches and see how they are put together, read the SOS articles, although the early reviews aren't online, read Dan Phillips web page), choose a complete RAM bank, let's say RAM3, and make it your Init bank, you can find a blank sysex bank and load it in. That's everything Init from WaveSequences to Performances. Create a starting Patch with all regular analogue subtraction stuff set wide open, Amp and Filter etc.

1) Start with a single oscillator Patch, and just go through all the individual Waves, there are hundreds of them, so it might take a while, but will give you a good idea of what's available. Don't forget the Card waveforms too! You might start realising that some waves kinda belong together, in their name and/or sound, and that will give you ideas for the next stage. I had them all printed out and then highlighted interesting waves and sets of waves.

2) Same single oscillator Patch, but this time start building a WaveSequence from scratch. There is so much possibility just here, it's quite incredible. From analogue style pitch sequences, to rhythmic drum stuff, to D50 style percussive transient wed to looped body sound, to slowly evolving drones and vocal sounds etc. Get to grips with how the WaveSequences work and all their parameters. It's great in the plugin that you can click and drag the timings and crossfades etc.

3) Next try a four oscillator Patch and start getting to grips with the Vector Synthesis, which adds a whole new layer of complexity. A good starter is to have four different slowly evolving WaveSequence drones for Oscillators 1-4, and then start crossfading between them with the Joystick, then play around with how you can automatically crossfade between the WaveSequences with the crazy Mix Envelope controls, you can "draw in a path" for the crossfading to follow, loop it etc. This is how the Prophet VS worked, just with the static Waves, so you could give that a try too, just using four different Waves, instead of WaveSequences.

4) Start stacking the Patches together in Performances with the Effects and Key/Velocity Zones etc. The Reverbs won't win any prizes these days, but I am sometimes still astounded by just how good some of the other stuff sounds, the Choruses and Panning etc. I think there's also another Resonant Filter (see below) sounding thing hiding in the EQ algorithm.

That should help you grok the main hierarchy from most simple to most complex. From there the sky is the limit. The joy with the plugins is of course you can ramp up the polyphony to 256, which is just insane (my EXs had 32 I think), add that to eight part multi-timbrality, with each part having up to four oscillators (which could also be WaveSequences), and then you play a massive chord, and, well, you get the idea...

Don't forget the plugin also has a kinda secret Resonant Filter mode, on the Filter Page, that none of the hardware ever had (it was always one of the main complaints about the WS). Go to Exciter Mode and turn it to Resonance. It turns the Exciter amount into a Res amount control. Also won't win any awards for analogue style sound, but it can totally work with some old presets and make them sound very different.

Also, try to find the old Paul Osborn presets if you can. I've scanned through many different banks since 1992, and that dude's have been the ones I often come back to again and again. He REALLY pushed it further than anyone else, with the combos of WaveSequencing and Vector Synthesis. Also loads of 70's style analogue string synth and pad style Performances that sound incredible and alive. There were DreamWaves 1 & 2 and TranceWaves 1 & 2.

I made a track about 12 years ago that features many of Paul Osborn's presets tweaked, can hear it here, most of the swirly sequenced sounding bits are straight outta the WS-EX I had at the time.:

https://babaluma.bandcamp.com/track/the ... epathy-mix

Do note if you load a whole RAM bank in (ALL data), you usually need to load it into RAM1 for it to work properly. If you load it into to RAM2 the Patches will be pointing towards RAM1 WaveSequences and Patches and it will sound totally wrong. It's one of the nightmares about having such an overly hierarchical synth architecture, and why if you want to mix and match WaveSequences or Patches from different RAM banks, a great Librarian software will be essential. This is why I recommended you keep you own Init Bank as RAM2 or RAM3, then you can use RAM1 for always loading other people's banks/presets into, and they should just work.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... techniques

http://www.danphillips.com/wavestation/

Hopefully some good starting points, but it's an extremely deep and complex beast!

Your right you have to start at the bottom with the Wavestation and work up as initially you are presented with a complex patch wondering what the hell is going on.

[muki]

but crashes if trying to load a bank.

how do you load a bank ?

what i did and which did NOT crash:
1) in the main window click "File" button
2) in display window click "Load"
3) from the dropdownmenu select "Bank..."
4) from the file browser select the bank

no crash so far here
that is: mac hiSierra, monopoly v2.0.1

maybe you have a different procedure ?

p.s.:
this file>load>select>etc mess is imho quite clumsy...

[Teksonik]

how hard can it be to include1 init preset in every synth...

You mean like this one ?

Korg 042120.png

And in Wavestation?

There is an INIT for All Rams but to be fair the individual patches aren't really INIT.

Korg 042220.png

[revvy]

how hard can it be to include1 init preset in every synth...

You mean like this one ?

Korg 042120.png

And in Wavestation?

There is an INIT for All Rams but to be fair the individual patches aren't really INIT.


Korg 042220.png

Aha, thanks.

[mcbpete]

Sorry to be the idiot here, but where exactly do I find the new updates? I downloaded the version 2 when they came out but now I can't find anywhere to download an update.

I (somewhat reluctantly) use the Korg Software Pass installation manager - It'll check what version you have installed vs the latest build and will have an update button by any products that aren't the latest version. Seems to stick the updated zip for the installer in a weird place on the PC though: C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Temp

[Aiynzahev]

I bought Odyssey and it's absolutely awesome

[thecontrolcentre]

Sorry to be the idiot here, but where exactly do I find the new updates? I downloaded the version 2 when they came out but now I can't find anywhere to download an update.

Login to your korg id account and click your products/downloads/offers
https://id.korg.com/accounts

[BONES]

Great to see the scalable GUI versions! Any single must-have instrument from the Korg Collection 2?
I am thinking between Wavestation and MonoPoly if I can. Any suggestions?

If I could only have one it would be PolySix. It has the most amazing filter sound. Really, really nasty when you want it to be. It's otherwise quite a simple synth, which makes it the ideal bread & butter instrument for all those secondary part sin your arrangements, the ones that you want to sound good but don't want to spend hours on.

[LoveEnigma18]

Great to see the scalable GUI versions! Any single must-have instrument from the Korg Collection 2?
I am thinking between Wavestation and MonoPoly if I can. Any suggestions?

If I could only have one it would be PolySix. It has the most amazing filter sound. Really, really nasty when you want it to be. It's otherwise quite a simple synth, which makes it the ideal bread & butter instrument for all those secondary part sin your arrangements, the ones that you want to sound good but don't want to spend hours on.

Interesting to know that. Thank you for the suggestion. I ended up getting Wavestation, as I liked how it sounds and could only afford one right now. But I have downloaded the demos of other instruments and will spend some time on PolySix and MonoPoly once I finish my ongoing track. PolySix interface does seem relatively easy to follow, though.

[LoveEnigma18]

I own only Wavestation and have installed the demos of others.

Problem 1: When I try to launch Wavestation in FL Studio, it shows the demo pop-up for it too.
Problem 2: After saving an FL Studio project containing Wavestation with a certain patch selected, when I reopen it, the patch changes to something else (or probably goes default).

I need to test a few more times, but has anyone else faced these issues?