Waveform and VST3 instruments

[pough]

Because VST3 versions of instrument plugins seem to be flaky, I had just un-checked "Show" in the plugin list for any VST3 instrument that also has a VST 2 version. However, I just got a plugin that only comes in VST3 version, so I want to try to get this solved.

I did tests using two different instruments from two different companies. One is Hillman by Klevgrand and the other is Shot by audec. I tested them in Trackion T7, Waveform 9, and Waveform 11.

Waveform 11:
Shot can be loaded and used in an edit but never renders. Rendering a MIDI clip to audio results in no sound. Rendering the entire edit results in no sound from Shot. The auto-rendering for the preview in the Project page results in no sound from Shot. There is no rendering process that includes any audio from Shot even though it works fine when an edit is playing.

Hillman can be loaded in an edit. It sometimes gets stuck notes. It sometimes renders. Some of the renders are just a stuck note. Some renders are empty. Sometimes it will randomly become "invisible" and when it does that it takes out Shot as well. By invisible I mean that Waveform claims it doesn't exist even though the plugin is still there on the track and its interface can be viewed. But it will never make any sound again. It has to be deleted and re-loaded to work again.

Waveform 9:
Shot never makes any sound at all.

Hillman cannot be loaded. Trying to load it results in the eternally spinning torus of death.

Tracktion T7:
Shot loads fine and renders fine. No problems at all that I can find.

Hillman cannot be loaded. Trying to load it results in the eternally spinning torus of death.

After the above tests I decided to rope more VST3 instruments into the testing.

LAST TEST: 8 tracks, 8 VST3 synths, one note each. Waveform 11 only.
1. audec Shot - silent
2. u-he ACE - plays note
3. Vember Surge - plays note
4. discoDSP OB-Xd - silent
5. Wusik EVE - silent
6. LaptopMusicianBlog Little Roadey - silent
7. Klevgrand Hillman - silent
8. Plogue chipsounds - plays note

When I render to a file using the Export menu item, the above is the result and also the silent plugins go silent in the edit. When I render a MIDI clip to an audio clip, they also go silent but I get the little yellow warning triangle telling me there are no instrument plugins on the track any more (see attached image.)

Three of the above plugins are free, so if anyone wants to do some testing on their own they can.
Vember Surge, discoDSP OB-Xd, and LaptopMusicianBlog Little Roadey

Windows 10
Waveform 11.0.26

[JohnNoizz]

Waveform 11:
Shot can be loaded and used in an edit but never renders. Rendering a MIDI clip to audio results in no sound. Rendering the entire edit results in no sound from Shot. The auto-rendering for the preview in the Project page results in no sound from Shot. There is no rendering process that includes any audio from Shot even though it works fine when an edit is playing.

Hillman can be loaded in an edit. It sometimes gets stuck notes. It sometimes renders. Some of the renders are just a stuck note. Some renders are empty. Sometimes it will randomly become "invisible" and when it does that it takes out Shot as well. By invisible I mean that Waveform claims it doesn't exist even though the plugin is still there on the track and its interface can be viewed. But it will never make any sound again. It has to be deleted and re-loaded to work again.

I'm having this exact issue with DS Thorn VST3 version, when render a track, or the whole track, doesn't have audio and my tracks with the synth on it doesn't make any sound, I thought it was just with DS Thorn but now I know that it is with many other VST3 plugins... I have to restart Waveform to get the synth work again BUT I go to render and again doesn't render the sound and the synth doens't makes anymore sounds again...

[pough]

FWIW I built the exact same "song" in StudioOne (2 pro) and all synths performed exactly as they should. The song sucks, but all the VST3 synths make noises and continue to function.

What's ironic is that u-he ACE is fine. That developer actually recommends using the VST 2 version of their plugins because they haven't quite managed to get VST3 to work properly. Go figure.

[pough]

Oh, I should mention also that Surge (works fine) and OB-Xd (doesn't work) are both free and open source.

[Steve Bolivar]

What does the Pluginval report say about the problem plugins. I get some flakiness with DS Tantra and Diversion. I reported this to Dimitri Sches and he was interested to see the Pluginval report.

[pough]

1. audec Shot - FAILED 1 test: Restoring default layout
2. u-he ACE - PASSED
3. Vember Surge - PASSED
4. discoDSP OB-Xd - FAILED 1 test: Restoring default layout
5. Wusik EVE - FAILED 1 test: Restoring default layout
6. LaptopMusicianBlog Little Roadey - PASSED
7. Klevgrand Hillman - PASSED
8. Plogue chipsounds - PASSED

Two of the "silent" plugins passed the tests. The rest only failed restoring default layout.

[JohnNoizz]

DS Thorn VST3: Starting test: pluginval / Restoring default layout...
!!! Test 1 failed: Unable to restore default layout

I don't think it has to do with sound...

[pough]

Looks like it has to do with buses...

Starting test: pluginval / Basic bus...
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Listing available buses...
Inputs:
Named layouts: Stereo
Discrete layouts: None
Outputs:
Named layouts: Stereo
Discrete layouts: None
Main bus num input channels: 0
Main bus num output channels: 0
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Enabling all buses...
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Disabling non-main busses...
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Restoring default layout...
!!! Test 1 failed: Unable to restore default layout
Main bus num input channels: 2
Main bus num output channels: 2

Time taken to run test: 3 ms
FAILED!! 1 test failed, out of a total of 1

[pough]

Is Waveform the only DAW that insists a VST3 plugin restore the default layout as part of the rendering process? It looks like very few plugin makers bother to handle that command.

And for the plugins that pass validation but still don't output during rendering... what's up with that? It's nice that they don't crash, but I want to hear them in my songs. Both LaptopMusicianBlog Little Roadey and Klevgrand Hillman pass the validation but are silent when rendering. The former is free, so no NFR is required.

https://www.laptopmusician.net/2019/06/ ... oadey.html

[pough]

I have attached and archived edit that includes one instance of LaptopMusicianBlog Little Roadey on a single track with a MIDI clip. After downloading and installing the VST3 version of the plugin you can load this edit to test.

Test 1: just play the edit to see if regular playback works. It should.
Test 2: select the MIDI clip and render the clip to audio. For me this results in a silent clip and the plugin will no longer work.

[asprog]

Same here with Klevgrand Baervaag... No sound when rendered.

[astey]

I'm having issues with Revoice Pro 4. It uses Ara2 if Waveform would support it. SynchroArts (Vendor) supplies you with a VST3 Link plugin. This plugin doesn't transmit audio in Waveform nor does it receive transport information.
I tested the link plugin successfully in Ableton, Cubase and Studio One.

[Stuttaton]

Reason rack plugin Europa and Thor work fine for me.

[pough]

I reported this to audec, the developer of Shot. Within a few hours I got an email saying he couldn't find a solution to the problem and simply gave me a refund.

I reported it also to discoDSP, who are working on OB-Xd. They sounded more receptive.

I don't know if solving the default bus layout issue will solve the Waveform silent rendering issue, but I think most developers will want to make their software as robust as possible regardless.

[pough]

Reason rack plugin Europa and Thor work fine for me.

Thank you for checking. I admit I haven't paid much attention to Reason in about 20 years, but I'm not surprised if they produced a solid product.