Control Surface Fader "Pickup mode"

[Peter Widdicombe]

Great demonstration - don't have a controller yet, but had wondered how this could work.

Like the description of the "endless" rotary controls versus the hard stop ones. Gotta make sure if I do get one, that it has the endless rotary.

Visual of faders is nice. Would like the option of the "auto scaling" in addition to (or preference to) pickup-mode.
(hint, hint... )

[Cambler]

Thanks for posting the video. One of the interesting things mentioned in there was the idea of "absolute" controls, ie. controls that have a physical hard stop at their top and bottom values. That makes me wonder if there are non-absolute controllers out there that could be used for mixing. I realise that you would miss out one the physical visuals of the mix on the hardware unit however the DAW mixer provides that. You would also miss out on the kind of throw distance you get with a fader. However you would not have to re-set up the mix as turning a knob will either increase or decrease the value. Anyone now of such units? Apologies if this is control surface 101 and I'm failing class

[Peter Widdicombe]

A number of "controller keyboards" have both rotary and fader-style controllers. Faders are obviously visually quicker to visualize than a rotary, and have that inherent "pickup" issue that you wouldn't have with a fader.

I've been toying with getting something like Akai's MPK261, which has both faders and control knobs (not SURE if they are endless knobs). More for the reported feel of the keys and the aftertouch than the inclusion of these controls...

[tovokas]

“Pickup Mode” is called “null” by my Nektar Impact LX49+, and it does work (as far as it goes) in Waveform. When you first open a project, the sliders and pan pots will ‘jump’ to the physical position of the slider when you first move them. But once you’ve initialized the position, it will remember it. On the Nektar, you can switch to “Instrument” mode, and the sliders and pots will now control various controls of your current VSTi. When you go back to mixer mode, the slider or pot won’t effect the volume or pan until you return it to the original position. However, if you switch from tracks 1-8 to 9-15, the null point is apparently cleared, and you have to start all over again. So in practice it’s not terribly useful, unless you’re just sticking with tracks 1-8 for hardware control, or you’ve got a really keen sense of where the slider should be when you start fiddling with it. I’m guessing there’s no real replacement for motorized faders for mixing. The sliders and knobs are still very useful for drawing automation curves, of course.

Oh, and my NanoKontrol2 doesn’t seem to have any concept of “pickup mode” or null in any DAW I’ve tested...

[Cambler]

Thanks so much for that info Tovokas, really helpful. Didn't know that about the Nektar. And yes I hear you on motorised faders. I think if I'd thought about this ahead of my purchases I would have shelled out for one of the cheaper motorised 8 fader units. Still I'd like to find a workflow for the setup I have now.

[chico.co.uk]

I knew when I bought my Arturia KeyLab that it wasn't supported (the faders/knobs), and Arturia support tried to get me going for a week, but it wasn't that important to me, in the end. I'm thinking how I want to approach recording in the future, and may use Waveform for recording, and another DAW for mastering, where external controls may help, for easier workflow.

I think they're wrong, I think the KeyLab does support external faders/knobs in Waveform, assuming it's the Arturia Keylab Mk2. The manual says it supports MCU mode, so does Waveform.

Try this.

Go into Waveform, Settings, Control Surfaces.
Click on "Mackie Control Universal", and at the bottom, where it says "Input Device" choose your Keylab.
At the bottom also click "Output Device" and choose your Keylab

On your Keylab, press the "DAW" button, so it's in DAW mode
Hold the DAW mode button for 1 second to enter the DAW Preset selection page
Turn the center knob, to change between the preset options. You should have 8 options, make sure it's set to Preset 1, which is "Standard MCU" mode.
Click the center knob to select that preset

Go to the edit screen in waveform, and see if the faders now move the volume on tracks 1-8, and the rotary encoders now control the pan on those tracks.

[Cambler]

I might be hijacking my own thread here but while I have such knowledgeable folk around let me ask this one. Is it possible to have a 2nd Mackie Control Universal device in the Control Surfaces list? I can't see anyway to duplicate the first MCU in that the list. My Korg nanoKontrol Studio came today and I would like that as the main controller but I would then like to use the nanoKontrol 2 as a controller for tracks 8-16. Both use MCU. Any ideas?

[dRowAudio]

You add additional MCUs as "Extenders" in the "MCU" item in the "Control Surfaces" settings page.

[Cambler]

Thanks so much Dave. Apologies if this was a RTFM

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

@fde101. Thanks much for the explanation, and video. Would be nice to have encoder/fader support, but not a deal breaker for me. I'm barely scratching the surface with Waveform, but liking it more, with every new thing I discover.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I knew when I bought my Arturia KeyLab that it wasn't supported (the faders/knobs), and Arturia support tried to get me going for a week, but it wasn't that important to me, in the end. I'm thinking how I want to approach recording in the future, and may use Waveform for recording, and another DAW for mastering, where external controls may help, for easier workflow.

I think they're wrong, I think the KeyLab does support external faders/knobs in Waveform, assuming it's the Arturia Keylab Mk2. The manual says it supports MCU mode, so does Waveform.

Try this.

Go into Waveform, Settings, Control Surfaces.
Click on "Mackie Control Universal", and at the bottom, where it says "Input Device" choose your Keylab.
At the bottom also click "Output Device" and choose your Keylab

On your Keylab, press the "DAW" button, so it's in DAW mode
Hold the DAW mode button for 1 second to enter the DAW Preset selection page
Turn the center knob, to change between the preset options. You should have 8 options, make sure it's set to Preset 1, which is "Standard MCU" mode.
Click the center knob to select that preset

Go to the edit screen in waveform, and see if the faders now move the volume on tracks 1-8, and the rotary encoders now control the pan on those tracks.

I have the Key Lab Essentials 49. I did everything, except holding down the DAW button. Ableton, and a few "big" DAWs are supported- I think the mk2 has magnetized templates they provide, to match the supported DAW's controls. But I'll give it a shot, and let you know, as soon as I'm able.

Weird, I'm in NYC, and basically a hostage with plenty of time, but haven't spent any time on music. Just had a Total Gym delivered and spend more time on that. Sorry, off topic... Thanks.

[chico.co.uk]

The Keylab essential controller also supports MCU and HUI modes, but the way of accessing them is slightly different from the mk2

You definitely need to set up the controller as a Mackie Control Unit in Waveform, with the inputs and outputs pointing at your Keylab. And delete any other controller mappings for it, in Waveform.

It reads like you probably want to install Arturia's MCC software (Midi Control Center) and check that the DAW mode, in the ControllerMap settings, is set to Mackie Control, rather than HUI. It's a read-only mapping, it's not clear what it's set to.

All the ways of mapping it to other DAWs are basically just doing the same thing. Mapping MCU mode inputs and outputs to your controller ;

https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabessen ... ips-tricks

[chico.co.uk]

I mean, here's how they say to set it up in Reaper.

That's essentially the exact same thing you do in control surfaces, under settings, in Waveform. Just say it's an MCU, and point the inputs and outputs at your controller.

Screenshot 2020-05-06 at 11.19.07.png

[chico.co.uk]

Set both of these to point to your Keylab essentials keyboard. Put the keylab in DAW mode.

Screenshot 2020-05-06 at 11.24.50.png

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I mean, here's how they say to set it up in Reaper.

That's essentially the exact same thing you do in control surfaces, under settings, in Waveform. Just say it's an MCU, and point the inputs and outputs at your controller.

It works! Specific to KeyLab Essential, for Control Surfaces, you have to select "MIDIIN2" as the input, and Arturia KeyLab Essential, as output. The one thing I didn't do, was set "Arturia KeyLab Essential" as the output. Screenshot:

Arturia control surface.JPG

There was a lot of confusion with Arturia Support when I inquired about the MIDIIN2 Driver I saw as an optional driver. I was told to not bother with that driver, but without it, the Midi Control Center didn't work. So I installed it, and MCC worked, but for the life of me, I couldn't get the encoders/faders to work within Waveform. I kept setting MIDIIN2 as the output in Control Surfaces. The pads, jog wheel (which moved the cursor) and transport controls worked, and I was resigned to simply not have fader support. For me, for whatever reason, it seemed counterintuitive to set the keyboard as the output.

Specific to KeyLab, I think it's important to set the DAW mode to "Mackie Control" and DAW Fader Mode to "Pickup (NOW I know where I first saw 'pickup')." Oddly, right now, nothing is responsive within Midi Control Center, but I'll worry about that later. Probably a mode setting.

I'll have to remap a few buttons, as the "punch" button makes all the KeyLab inputs disappear within the projects tab, while simultaneously enabling/disabling the Snap within WF, plus there's other buttons I've never used that were previously unresponsive.

Despite the confusion with Arturia support, I have to say, they were really responsive, and we were emailing multiple times over a course of 2 weeks. They were willing to go on for forever, but I was more interested in getting acquainted with WF, which I demoed at the end of Dec, then purchased in Jan. I bought the KeyLab in Feb. The free Analog Lab software is worth more than the keyboard.

Oh- the controls work with T7, WF10 & WF 11. I still have all 3 installed, and tested on all 3.

All in all, I can't say how much I appreciate your input, Chico. I'll have to read the whole KeyLab manual over again, but it'll be worth it.

Edit: my endless encoders work as well. Everything is really responsive.