Threshold level in Ozone 9 maximizer

[ChamomileShark]

hi, I'm not very experienced in mastering (or mixing for that matter) but I'm particularly puzzled by Ozone 9's maximizer.

I make fairly sparse ambient, a bit like Roedelius. It's quiet music, no drums.

I tend to mix at a low level. I allow Ozone 9 to do the master assistant thing. I find many times I get a much louder but somehow over intense, even distorted sound. I usually end up turning off the maximizer but the masters are actually a bit too quiet. So I'm looking for the maximizer to increase loudness, but not to the point where it destroys the feel of the track.

Today I tried to get a bit more scientific.

I have a track where the peak levels are between -5 to -2.2 db.

I let Master Assistant do it's thing, giving it the loudest bit. I've set it to "Modern", "Streaming" and "Moderate".

It gives a ceiling of -1 db and a threshold of -4.6db. I set the meters to intergated and I see it going up to -12.8 LUFs.

If I then use the "Learn Threshold" at -14 LUFs (which is it's default) it takes that threshold up, for the most part it's around -4db and it goes up to -3.2db.

So my question is..if it seems the default target is -14 LUFs why is the Master Assistant making the track consistently louder than that?

I tried messing around with different IRCs..overall it's showing the same effect, ie the assistant overshoots the target.

[Kinh]

Because da ma-ma-ma-mastering assistant is jus-ta guide ta gi-gi-gi give you a rough idea of howz it should be. How loud and dynamic ya want it is up to pe-per-per-pepersonal taste.
Excuse the stutter impediment.

[ChamomileShark]

But it shouldn't distort if it is set on automatic. It's ok, I'm simply manually over riding it.

[IsThereLight]

Hi ChamomileShark,

Excuse the initial reply. Your question is absolutely legit and some folks take more time to insult you than it would've taken them to answer the question in any meaningful way. That kind of wart is an unfortunate feature in pretty much every forum I've ever been a part of.

Anyhow, to be clear, yes, the mastering assistant is there to give you a solid starting point. But, there are some very quick adjustments you can make in order to polish up the sound without that nasty distortion.

-1.0 dB is the industry standard Ceiling for streaming services and -0.1 for CD reproduction. If you intend to post to Bandcamp, Spotify, iTunes etc. make certain to leave Ceiling at one of those values (dependent on your goal).

If you do decide to change it, make certain you double-click the number and enter a value manually. The fader is very imprecise and if you slide it even a hair over the intended target it can cause problems.

Also, make certain that True Peak is selected. It adds a bit of CPU usage, but it makes for a much tighter and better sounding signal.

Now, simplifying things a bit, like a compressor the Threshold sets where the limiting begins. It is important to note that whatever amount you set this to will increase the loudness of the incoming signal by that amount. For example, if your incoming signal is -10dB and your Threshold is set to -2dB, then the output will be -8dB. You will have gained 2dB worth of loudness.

Now, if your incoming signal hits the threshold (the grey meters go above the Threshold line), then the actual limiting will kick in. This works a bit differently (it is non-linear), but just trust your ears (and the meters) when you are making these adjustments.

Learn Threshold button and Target LUFS are a fancy bit of code. This feature is a very useful function for material with relatively consistent loudness. But, if you're material is either very dynamic or very quiet, it will drop the Threshold value WAAAY too low and will absolutely mangle your music. Based on your initial post, my guess is that this is what happened to you.

That said, if you go to the loudest part of your song and turn it on, it can be useful for identifying what the Threshold needs to be to hit your target LUFS at the loudest part of your material. However, the Mastering Assistant generally does a much better job of finding the right Threshold.

So, your best bet is to continue doing what you are doing and manually set the Threshold to whatever sounds best to you. You are the artist and you have final say.

So, as a general rule of thumb, for streaming services you are targeting -1.0dB peak and -14LUFS. But, take the LUFS value with a very large grain of salt.

Now, lets get into some actual settings. These recommendations are based on my experience mixing and mastering ambient material (again, play with these until you like them):

1. Start with they Mastering Assistant.
2. Set your Mode to "IRC IV - Transient" - This will provided you with the greatest detail and clarity. You can also explore Classic and Modern and see how they sound to you. I would avoid the IRC I, II and III settings, as they tend to have more character to them (distortion, pumping, less detailed sound, etc)
3. Keep the Character setting (this is generally pretty good)
4. Keep the Stereo Independence (Transient will generally be under 30% and Sustain will generally be below that)
5. If Transient Emphasis is off, try turning it on and setting a conservative setting of around 20 and see if you like it.
6. Make certain your meters are set to RMS + Peak (you do this by clicking the "I/O" icon in between and slightly above the Input and Output meters, then select "RMS + Peak")
7. Now, as a very loose rule of thumb, use the Threshold slider, so that your Output peak meters (the slightly transparent ones) are hitting -1 and your RMS is roughly 5-10dB lower. Adjust to taste.

If you plan on streaming your music, there is also a really lovely plugin called Loudness Penalty that will help you hit the loudness targets for YouTube, Spotify, Tidal, Pandora and iTunes. It allows you to achieve maximum loudness without sacrificing dynamic range.

So, yeah. I hope that helps! If you have any questions, feel free to hit me up.

[ChamomileShark]

But, if you're material is either very dynamic or very quiet, it will drop the Threshold value WAAAY too low and will absolutely mangle your music. Based on your initial post, my guess is that this is what happened to you.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, my stuff naturally quiet and sometimes pretty sparse, ie it includes silences. So I think you've got to the heart of it.

I spent a bit of time getting info on LUFs levels and typical values for different genres. My stuff probably isn't hugely away in terms of dynamics from a small classical ensemble so loudness target might be down at the -23 LUFs.

I also ran a few favourite tracks through Izotope's RX to get a more detailed read out of peak, loudest LUFs, short term LUFs and overall LUFs. That was illuminating. Many of these tracks quite possibly had come from vinyl before going to CD.

Listening to stuff by some of my favourite artists I saw a major jump in loudness from their 70s CD music levels to the ones initially recorded on CD. I came away with the impression that the older CD transfers were perhaps a bit quiet but often the newer ones felt a bit too dense so ideally I'd go for middle ground.

I've now started doing that, adding a little more density/ body with the maximiser but no where near the setting it ends up even to achieve -16 LUFs.

A couple of days ago I was looking up a particular hardware compressor/limiter from the 80s..in the review by Paul White (Sound on Sound) saying if you did all electronic stuff you probably didn't even need a compressor/limiter. But that might have been in the days of tape.

[Prophecy99]

great thread !, thanks for the very detailed explanation on Thresholds in Ozone 9.