KVR Audio

mi-os · Post by **mi-os** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:27 am

carrieres was faster, but yes sysex was later introduced to overcome initial limitations. I always thought it must be possible to bidirectionally talk to a synth via sysex + MIDI in/out. Although i think a synth specific sysex protocol would be needed to make it work.

I also wonder why some people are so argumentative about this. I'm certain it's not unreasonable to ask for better controller integration. A modern protocol would be nice, but we should be able to do plenty of things in different ways right now without inventing something new.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:33 am

mi-os wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 10:27 am I also wonder why some people are so argumentative about this. I'm certain it's not unreasonable to ask for better controller integration. A modern protocol would be nice, but we should be able to do plenty of things in different ways right now without inventing something new.

MIDI 2.0 opens the port for that (when/if it appears implemented in software, as well as in hardware).

That's what was already mentioned

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:41 am

It's not an "if", it's a "when". Don't forget both hardware and software manufacturers (including ROLI, NI, Steinberg, etc.) were all in the panel when spec was being worked upon.

mi-os · Post by **mi-os** » Mon May 11, 2020 11:03 am

It looks like MIDI 2.0 is final and backwards compatible. The question is whether Steinberg has already implemented it in their sdk so developer can use it right now? I assume they would use that library to handel everything MIDI and automation related in one place (ie no different layers or libs for MIDI 1.0/2.0 or automation)

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon May 11, 2020 11:08 am

mi-os wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 10:27 am carrieres was faster, but yes sysex was later introduced to overcome initial limitations. I always thought it must be possible to bidirectionally talk to a synth via sysex + MIDI in/out. Although i think a synth specific sysex protocol would be needed to make it work.

I also wonder why some people are so argumentative about this. I'm certain it's not unreasonable to ask for better controller integration. A modern protocol would be nice, but we should be able to do plenty of things in different ways right now without inventing something new.

I had alrady mentioned that the final version of the OB-Xa plugin should include NKS presets for using with the NI Komplete Kontrol software and controllers like it was already done with the factory presets of DUNE 3 and The Legend. Those NKS presets include parameters being mapped to a compatible hardware controller.

At a decicated controller like e.g. my NI Komplete S61 Mk1 the parameter values are shown as in the plugin like e.g, "200 Hz" for the Cutoff. When using this with the Komplete Kontrol software/plugin this is bi-directional so changing a value in the plugin also changes the value at the hardware controller and vice versa.
The Mk1 controller has 8 small OLED displays for each of the 8 encoders opposing to 2 big display in the new Mk2. Those displays always show the corresponding parameter names and when you touch the top of the encoders you get the current value (which you also get while chnaging a value with the encoder).
The names of the differnt parameter pages are based on the names of the sections that like the parameter names can be edited. The section names are displayed at the hardware controller below the parameter names. Not at all pages all of the 8 available parameters/encoders are used.

In the current NKS presets for The Legend 41 parameters are mapped to the controller. If you need more it is possible to edit and/or expand this and save as a new user NKS preset.
It does not seem to be possible to use the mod matrix source and destinations yet but it is possible to map the mod amount knobs.

legendCNCD · Post by **legendCNCD** » Mon May 11, 2020 12:40 pm

wagtunes wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:58 pm
Noumena wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:36 pm I was around when MIDI was introduced and it is used for wildly, *wildly* different things now than what it was "intended" to be used for, so the argument that "MIDI is for x" doesn't fit with the last... 38? years of history. I put quotes around "intended" because it was intended to be flexible and extensible so that it could do near anything you wanted so that another standard wouldn't be needed for a while (which would help to establish MIDI as the single standard.) That worked, thank god.

Anyway, I'm chiming in because what EvilDragon is talking about... "creating entire patches" through MIDI is actually one of the very few things that it was designed to do. Roland and other members of the original MIDI consortium wanted external programmers, librarians, etc, to be able to completely control every aspect about a sound module through MIDI: everything from parameters, to presets to firmware updates and settings. So, the very thing EvilDragon is speaking about (that being total control of all aspects of a sound module, inclusive of configuration, options, and other parameters) is and has always been part of the MIDI specification and the "intentions" of its creators. But don't take my word for it, check it out. Also, why always so argumentative?
Well, if that was the intention, obviously it never caught on.

You have to wonder why.

I wish I had this back when I was using hours to do one patch for Alpha Juno 2

(yeah its MIDI)

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon May 11, 2020 4:28 pm

mi-os wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 11:03 am It looks like MIDI 2.0 is final and backwards compatible. The question is whether Steinberg has already implemented it in their sdk so developer can use it right now? I assume they would use that library to handel everything MIDI and automation related in one place (ie no different layers or libs for MIDI 1.0/2.0 or automation)

It's not yet in the VST3 SDK AFAIK.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Wed May 13, 2020 9:51 pm

wagtunes wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:58 pm
Noumena wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:36 pm I was around when MIDI was introduced and it is used for wildly, *wildly* different things now than what it was "intended" to be used for, so the argument that "MIDI is for x" doesn't fit with the last... 38? years of history. I put quotes around "intended" because it was intended to be flexible and extensible so that it could do near anything you wanted so that another standard wouldn't be needed for a while (which would help to establish MIDI as the single standard.) That worked, thank god.

Anyway, I'm chiming in because what EvilDragon is talking about... "creating entire patches" through MIDI is actually one of the very few things that it was designed to do. Roland and other members of the original MIDI consortium wanted external programmers, librarians, etc, to be able to completely control every aspect about a sound module through MIDI: everything from parameters, to presets to firmware updates and settings. So, the very thing EvilDragon is speaking about (that being total control of all aspects of a sound module, inclusive of configuration, options, and other parameters) is and has always been part of the MIDI specification and the "intentions" of its creators. But don't take my word for it, check it out. Also, why always so argumentative?
Well, if that was the intention, obviously it never caught on.

You have to wonder why.

Just because you're ignorant of something, it doesn't mean that it's not happening. Full MIDI hardware to hardware and software to hardware has been going on since the 80s... maybe before that, but that's when I became aware of it.

tony10000 · Post by **tony10000** » Thu May 14, 2020 10:27 pm

Wonder how the Synapse OB-Xa is coming along? May is almost 1/2 over.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu May 14, 2020 10:39 pm

Let me tell you something about Richard. He is one class act. I wrote to support with a problem about Dune 2 and he wrote back to me not once but several times.

And that's why I own all his stuff.

Can't wait for this one.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu May 14, 2020 11:52 pm

Trust me, you won't be disappointed. I've started putting it into some of our songs and it really is brilliant.

tony10000 · Post by **tony10000** » Thu May 14, 2020 11:55 pm

BONES wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 11:52 pm Trust me, you won't be disappointed. I've started putting into some of our songs and it really is brilliant.

I am sure it is. Would be nice if they revealed the price so I can budget for it.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu May 14, 2020 11:56 pm

BONES wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 11:52 pm Trust me, you won't be disappointed. I've started putting into some of our songs and it really is brilliant.

Well, everything the guy has come out with has been great. They get almost constant use on my tracks.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Fri May 15, 2020 12:05 am

wagtunes wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:39 pm Let me tell you something about Richard. He is one class act. I wrote to support with a problem about Dune 2 and he wrote back to me not once but several times.

And that's why I own all his stuff.

Can't wait for this one.

Richard is great indeed. He really deserves credit.

tony10000 · Post by **tony10000** » Fri May 15, 2020 12:09 am

https://www.synapse-audio.com/shop.html

Upcoming Synapse OB-Xa: Obsession