I run into issues trying to make perfect loop ie loops without glitchy nasty click at transition at end/start.
I tried lots of combinations in the past days and so far found solution to sustaining sounds loops only. I´ll post pics and explanations what works and what doesnt on my end so you can see from my experience where lies the problem, my wild guess its something with overdub volume or related to it but Im no expert.
Here is my typical recording. 1 loop cycle and a little of overdub where sounds decay to prevent click at the end/start transition. What happens is most noticeable the glitchy click and big increase in volume where overdub ended and first layer of loop continue. It should be seamsless but it isnt. Like some unwanted auto leveling is happening.
So far I tried also with bigger crossfade, with different overdub levels... Same and in some cases even more noticeable transition.
Things that I found out after experimenting (might help someone) but only for ambient sustain sounds:
Non-synced loops
Only way to record perfect loop and only for slot 1 track 1: start recording, there needs to be some silence at the beginning, then play, use mark end but play still, let it record in overdub until position where your first recorded sounds are, stop playing and stop recording. In every try I made perfect loop with it. If I go to record track 2 MsuperLooper would end it at relative time to the first loop and not exact where I tell it and that would ruin loop ie would make a click. Only works for the first loop where I determine where the loop will end.
Pic of my settings for that:
Synced loops
Only way to record perfect loop in sync but with more tracks available in this method:
start recording, there needs to be some silence at the beginning, then play, use mark end but play still, let it record in overdub until position where your first recorded sounds are (in the first loop), stop playing, let it ring out and stop recording. In every try I made perfect loop with it.
Pic of my settings for synced loops:
In both methods mark end is the key I guess. While this methods is good for sustaining sounds like pads and drones I dont know how can be useful to "normal" instrument playing.
Still running demo, on the fence of getting it, hoping for update which would resolve issues I have
MSuperLooper - Issues trying to make seamless loop
-
- KVRist
- 315 posts since 13 Jun, 2009
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- KVRian
- 710 posts since 7 May, 2002 from Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I had sent a message to support about that glitch and was told they were aware of it and it was being worked on. Here's my testing and results in case it is of any help before the fix comes. Video demonstrating the below examples:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c_n2S ... BV3ZWRnuIN
Procedure: (functions triggered via midi)
- Start Record
- Fade in input audio (I used a volume ramp on my voice via MRatio to give smooth fade in and out).
- Finish record with Mark End.
- Fade out when overlap with recorded sound.
- Stop Record (the video shows 3 different moments when Record is stopped).
Example 1:
No glitch when stop record - if wait until plays through an entire loop of the next pass.
Example 2:
Glitch does happen when stop record - during the next pass of the loop before 50% of it has played.*
* Sometimes no glitch will happen if wait to stop record until some point after 50%.
Example 3:
No glitch when stop record - before end of loop.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c_n2S ... BV3ZWRnuIN
Procedure: (functions triggered via midi)
- Start Record
- Fade in input audio (I used a volume ramp on my voice via MRatio to give smooth fade in and out).
- Finish record with Mark End.
- Fade out when overlap with recorded sound.
- Stop Record (the video shows 3 different moments when Record is stopped).
Example 1:
No glitch when stop record - if wait until plays through an entire loop of the next pass.
Example 2:
Glitch does happen when stop record - during the next pass of the loop before 50% of it has played.*
* Sometimes no glitch will happen if wait to stop record until some point after 50%.
Example 3:
No glitch when stop record - before end of loop.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 315 posts since 13 Jun, 2009
Seems like some kind of auto leveling is happening behind the scenes, very apparent in the example 2 and it would explain why it isnt happening in example 3 (maybe it is but its a full cycle).
Anyhow, for sustained sounds found solution but for normal melodic loops its an issue. Even with sustained sounds if I record from the beginning without letting some silence it would make a "click" or volume changes. Good news that they are working on it, thanks for the info!
Little correction for the pics above, I think one setting should be on: "recording starts at main loop". Without it, I think, my overdubs (for tracks 2-3..) started in some point in the loop other than beginning which made weird loop. Should have spotted this sooner, I apologize.
Anyhow, for sustained sounds found solution but for normal melodic loops its an issue. Even with sustained sounds if I record from the beginning without letting some silence it would make a "click" or volume changes. Good news that they are working on it, thanks for the info!
Little correction for the pics above, I think one setting should be on: "recording starts at main loop". Without it, I think, my overdubs (for tracks 2-3..) started in some point in the loop other than beginning which made weird loop. Should have spotted this sooner, I apologize.
-
MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
I'm afraid it's not any kind of autoleveling, it WAS a plain old bug 
. Originally I thought the looper will be a few days of development at most, and it turns out to be quite complex actually - mostly because all of the options, possibilities to trigger various things etc... Hopefully the next version will be working better!
. Originally I thought the looper will be a few days of development at most, and it turns out to be quite complex actually - mostly because all of the options, possibilities to trigger various things etc... Hopefully the next version will be working better!-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 315 posts since 13 Jun, 2009
Im noob 
Found apparent example of the bug in Chandler´s quick start video when he is recording second snare. Pay attention to the waveform while he is recording and as soon as he quit recording waveform increases in size and also it becomes louder (at 3m_34s or click the link and not the embedded video):
But its not that relevant since you already know whats there behind the scenes, in the coding I mean.
Thanks, while waiting for the update gonna put my trust in it and get it now
Found apparent example of the bug in Chandler´s quick start video when he is recording second snare. Pay attention to the waveform while he is recording and as soon as he quit recording waveform increases in size and also it becomes louder (at 3m_34s or click the link and not the embedded video): But its not that relevant since you already know whats there behind the scenes, in the coding I mean.
Thanks, while waiting for the update gonna put my trust in it and get it now
-
MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Yes, that's the bug . A beta should be out in a day/two, so please just check it out then 
. A beta should be out in a day/two, so please just check it out then -
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 315 posts since 13 Jun, 2009
Thanks for the update, mostly I got good results in a few quick tests, didn't have much time to use it more. Here are some first impressions.
I imported 4 bar 80bpm loop into project at 120bpm and it displayed 6 bars. I like this visual "wrong" info, I can just adjust daw bpm until MSL shows 4 bars. Easy visual way to find original tempo of a loop. I don't mind if that stays there, can have some usage when first loops weren't recorded in sync mode.
"MSuperLooper now displays a scrollbar for tracks when the number of tracks is 9 or higher."
Its kinda big on 1080p monitor at 100% gui size, 4 tracks fits nicely but 6 are max and that with settings for loop recording collapsed, with those settings open- 5 tracks (you can see in the video bellow how much 4 tracks use screen, Reaper is in fullscreen mode).
What I'm saying scrollbar with less number of tracks would be nice, like from 5 and up. I guess, as a workaround I see I can set 9 tracks but not use them just to get scrollbar.
Run into some odd behavior, doesn't seem logical to be there by design. Since its easier to show than explain I made a video about it. In short, seems like disabled "Immediate overdub" affect "Auto overdub" which is enabled but wont work in that situation.
I imported 4 bar 80bpm loop into project at 120bpm and it displayed 6 bars. I like this visual "wrong" info, I can just adjust daw bpm until MSL shows 4 bars. Easy visual way to find original tempo of a loop. I don't mind if that stays there, can have some usage when first loops weren't recorded in sync mode.
"MSuperLooper now displays a scrollbar for tracks when the number of tracks is 9 or higher."
Its kinda big on 1080p monitor at 100% gui size, 4 tracks fits nicely but 6 are max and that with settings for loop recording collapsed, with those settings open- 5 tracks (you can see in the video bellow how much 4 tracks use screen, Reaper is in fullscreen mode).
What I'm saying scrollbar with less number of tracks would be nice, like from 5 and up. I guess, as a workaround I see I can set 9 tracks but not use them just to get scrollbar.
Run into some odd behavior, doesn't seem logical to be there by design. Since its easier to show than explain I made a video about it. In short, seems like disabled "Immediate overdub" affect "Auto overdub" which is enabled but wont work in that situation.
-
- KVRist
- 306 posts since 19 Jul, 2016
that explains why there aren't so many looper plugins...and why we need SuperLooper!MeldaProduction wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 10:07 pm Originally I thought the looper will be a few days of development at most, and it turns out to be quite complex actually
-
- KVRian
- 539 posts since 25 Aug, 2006
EXACTLYtonycore wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 11:52 pmthat explains why there aren't so many looper plugins...and why we need SuperLooper!MeldaProduction wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 10:07 pm Originally I thought the looper will be a few days of development at most, and it turns out to be quite complex actually
-
MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
bojanboyss: I can lower the min number of tracks, but the problem is, the scrollbar is kinda "in the way" I think, but who knows, I'll check. As for the video - that looks like a bug, I'll check!
tonycore & mccy: Hehe trying my best 
tonycore & mccy: Hehe trying my best
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 315 posts since 13 Jun, 2009
I was using MSL in 2 separate sessions last few days and here are my impressions, FR, maybe small bug etc...
Midi mapping isn't that very good. Its unusual that it has very good options for notes but not for CCs which are more common for mapping. Also it doesn't allow to map PC to controls.
Since I couldn't use PC I decided to use CC. Mapped all useful but discover in tests that I have to make some CCs toggle in software for midi controller (record etc commands). Note mode has switch which is like CC toggle button and on/off which is like momentary. CCs doesn't have exact same option.
So I made them toggle but after some using it wasn't that useful. I had to press with my toe hard for software to do a command. Must note that I am using 2xAkai LPD8 which are pressure sensitive, not like robust foot pedals or sustain pedal that probably sends only 2 kinds of pressure values.
So in the MSL midi mapping setting I increased first knob, very close to middle point (middle is where that knob switches from off to on) to make it more sensitive. For some time it worked better, it was more sensitive though not perfect. I was using it for some longer time and all of the sudden hardware pads wouldn't do its thing. Found that was due that in midi settings of MSL some of those knobs I described earlier moved to On position, by itself. That would happen on knobs that doesn't have values except "on" and "off". In multi-parameters it wouldn't and they have percentage values all around knob, if it was 49,6% it would stay that way. Maybe a bug?
Since I didn't want to make bunch of multi-parameters with only 1 command, I re-mapped all to notes. It works much better than CC for buttons, they are configurable and very sensitive to hardware buttons pressing which I was after. For knobs I still use CC, knobs mapping worked great from the start.
Example: with CC mapping to "mark end", few times happened that MSL didn't register it and I wasn't looking at the screen, bummer. Reaper register even those light presses and also button lights up on hardware.
In short, I wish CC mapping has "switch" and "on/off" option like in Notes mapping. Interval or similar options can do it but aren't that sensitive like Notes option. Velocity=1 will trigger it but cc=65 or something is needed when used with CC. Also instead of toggle I could use 2 CC hardware buttons which would probably work much better but don't wanna sacrifice 2 buttons when 1 could do it.
Sometimes it would makes skips during play, like choking now and then. Sometimes even during recording but it wasn't ruining recordings which is good. That sometimes happens even when doing nothing, just playing for a while without any interaction.
Edit, seems it was dues to Reaper auto save set to 3 minutes. Will have to remember to disable that now and then.
Previous/Next Loop (global) midi mapable action would be nice.
Question about presets. Lets say I did few tracks/loops but decided I wanna go into different direction. Can I save preset (not DAW project) and then reset all? Will audio loops be in there when I come back to the preset at a later date to continue with that idea?
Btw, I'm not concerned about space.
Pressing "next" and "previous", would be nice if its possible, to scroll those tracks into view since sometimes they are far bellow or up.
Regarding view also, when track number is reduced gui size stays the same size- stretching reduced number of tracks so I often have to click "settings" then "gui" then 90% and then 100% to restore "normal" view size of 100%. Kinda lot of steps after using reset all command. And reset should also reset tracks gain/pan.
Midi mapping isn't that very good. Its unusual that it has very good options for notes but not for CCs which are more common for mapping. Also it doesn't allow to map PC to controls.
Since I couldn't use PC I decided to use CC. Mapped all useful but discover in tests that I have to make some CCs toggle in software for midi controller (record etc commands). Note mode has switch which is like CC toggle button and on/off which is like momentary. CCs doesn't have exact same option.
So I made them toggle but after some using it wasn't that useful. I had to press with my toe hard for software to do a command. Must note that I am using 2xAkai LPD8 which are pressure sensitive, not like robust foot pedals or sustain pedal that probably sends only 2 kinds of pressure values.
So in the MSL midi mapping setting I increased first knob, very close to middle point (middle is where that knob switches from off to on) to make it more sensitive. For some time it worked better, it was more sensitive though not perfect. I was using it for some longer time and all of the sudden hardware pads wouldn't do its thing. Found that was due that in midi settings of MSL some of those knobs I described earlier moved to On position, by itself. That would happen on knobs that doesn't have values except "on" and "off". In multi-parameters it wouldn't and they have percentage values all around knob, if it was 49,6% it would stay that way. Maybe a bug?
Since I didn't want to make bunch of multi-parameters with only 1 command, I re-mapped all to notes. It works much better than CC for buttons, they are configurable and very sensitive to hardware buttons pressing which I was after. For knobs I still use CC, knobs mapping worked great from the start.
Example: with CC mapping to "mark end", few times happened that MSL didn't register it and I wasn't looking at the screen, bummer. Reaper register even those light presses and also button lights up on hardware.
In short, I wish CC mapping has "switch" and "on/off" option like in Notes mapping. Interval or similar options can do it but aren't that sensitive like Notes option. Velocity=1 will trigger it but cc=65 or something is needed when used with CC. Also instead of toggle I could use 2 CC hardware buttons which would probably work much better but don't wanna sacrifice 2 buttons when 1 could do it.
Sometimes it would makes skips during play, like choking now and then. Sometimes even during recording but it wasn't ruining recordings which is good. That sometimes happens even when doing nothing, just playing for a while without any interaction.
Edit, seems it was dues to Reaper auto save set to 3 minutes. Will have to remember to disable that now and then.
Previous/Next Loop (global) midi mapable action would be nice.
Question about presets. Lets say I did few tracks/loops but decided I wanna go into different direction. Can I save preset (not DAW project) and then reset all? Will audio loops be in there when I come back to the preset at a later date to continue with that idea?
Btw, I'm not concerned about space.
Pressing "next" and "previous", would be nice if its possible, to scroll those tracks into view since sometimes they are far bellow or up.
Regarding view also, when track number is reduced gui size stays the same size- stretching reduced number of tracks so I often have to click "settings" then "gui" then 90% and then 100% to restore "normal" view size of 100%. Kinda lot of steps after using reset all command. And reset should also reset tracks gain/pan.
-
MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Please use separate threads or even better use contact form for things like that. Anyways:
- MIDI : what is "PC"? I'll check the center value.
- Prev/next loop: Thjere is selection of a specific loop in the new beta.
- Presets contain the audio, yes.
- Scrolling - I'll check. Style shouldn't change really, I'll check though.
- MIDI : what is "PC"? I'll check the center value.
- Prev/next loop: Thjere is selection of a specific loop in the new beta.
- Presets contain the audio, yes.
- Scrolling - I'll check. Style shouldn't change really, I'll check though.
-
- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 315 posts since 13 Jun, 2009
Yes, for PC I meant program change message. I think its just sending one value no matter how hard you press.
Sorry, didn't use separate thread, maybe I should have (was afraid I´ll be all over the forum) and also didn't use contact form because this isn't any major issues/problems. Its just small things (looking from users end) that could make great software even better. Nothing that cant be overcomed or lived with. Since 14.06a its working great. I think its the best looper software, at least it is for me.
In the end I used midi notes for buttons and CC for knobs. Now I just have to lightly touch hardware button and it executes command. Luckily I can program pads to note/cc/pc (at same time). Similar type of pads (pressure sensitive) have many controllers and keyboards these days.
Just updated to 14.06b, don't have time to use it tonight, just opened it once.
Thank you very much for the update! Scrollbar after more than 4 tracks works great so I don't have to resize gui (going trough bunch of menus) after messing with number of tracks. It doesn't get in a way at all. Maybe tracks area becomes just a bit smaller when scrollbar appears (if we wanna go nitpicking) but nothing really that gets in the way, very small change. It was like that also in previous beta only after 9 tracks. To be sure I'm not misunderstood, in short its great, way better than previous versions. Thanks!
(You can ignore this part from my previous comment because this update fixed: ...I often have to click "settings" then "gui" then 90% and then 100% to restore...)
About that scrolling selected track into view I suggested, idea is to move 3-4 meters from computer and play instrument rarely looking at computer screen. So if I go to next/previous track, jamming, sooner or later I would make a mistake to record into wrong track cause it was out of visible area of the screen. Thats the scenario where that function will be great, not having to come close to computer.
- Prev/next loop: There is selection of a specific loop in the new beta.
Not what I meant. Maybe that will have some usage but I was after similar functionality as previous/next track. Previous/next track is global and takes only 2 buttons instead of selecting each which would take 16 hardware buttons. I thought if it is possible to make similar midi mapable global next/previous loop on selected track. So global command that would take 2 buttons only but can choose any of 4 loops on a track we selected.
This isn't something that I would use often, but if possible could be very nice feature.
Sorry, didn't use separate thread, maybe I should have (was afraid I´ll be all over the forum) and also didn't use contact form because this isn't any major issues/problems. Its just small things (looking from users end) that could make great software even better. Nothing that cant be overcomed or lived with. Since 14.06a its working great. I think its the best looper software, at least it is for me.
In the end I used midi notes for buttons and CC for knobs. Now I just have to lightly touch hardware button and it executes command. Luckily I can program pads to note/cc/pc (at same time). Similar type of pads (pressure sensitive) have many controllers and keyboards these days.
Just updated to 14.06b, don't have time to use it tonight, just opened it once.
Thank you very much for the update! Scrollbar after more than 4 tracks works great so I don't have to resize gui (going trough bunch of menus) after messing with number of tracks. It doesn't get in a way at all. Maybe tracks area becomes just a bit smaller when scrollbar appears (if we wanna go nitpicking) but nothing really that gets in the way, very small change. It was like that also in previous beta only after 9 tracks. To be sure I'm not misunderstood, in short its great, way better than previous versions. Thanks!
(You can ignore this part from my previous comment because this update fixed: ...I often have to click "settings" then "gui" then 90% and then 100% to restore...)
About that scrolling selected track into view I suggested, idea is to move 3-4 meters from computer and play instrument rarely looking at computer screen. So if I go to next/previous track, jamming, sooner or later I would make a mistake to record into wrong track cause it was out of visible area of the screen. Thats the scenario where that function will be great, not having to come close to computer.
- Prev/next loop: There is selection of a specific loop in the new beta.
Not what I meant. Maybe that will have some usage but I was after similar functionality as previous/next track. Previous/next track is global and takes only 2 buttons instead of selecting each which would take 16 hardware buttons. I thought if it is possible to make similar midi mapable global next/previous loop on selected track. So global command that would take 2 buttons only but can choose any of 4 loops on a track we selected.
This isn't something that I would use often, but if possible could be very nice feature.