Considering Waveform as my first DAW

[dynamo]

Thank you for doing that test.

No problem, but I haven't had any success in starting the DAW from an external MIDI clock yet.
The other way round works fine though: my MIDI drum machine syncs and follows the Waveform 11 MIDI clock.

Waveform 11 also autosaves basically every second, so I rarely lose progress if I do crash. If you finish a project without a crash on your system, I'd say the outlook looks favorable for you there.

That's a nice feature. And then there's the "plugin sandbox" feature -does that tell you which plugin has caused the crash, or just disable every third party plugin after you restart it again?

It's a hard choice, because by the time you realize you're limited by a DAW, you've already poured 10s or 100s of hours into learning it. That said, Waveform Free only costs time to use, and it'll give you a better idea of how much you like Waveform than any other DAW demo would.

Too true!
And spending all that time trying to learn and compare multiple DAWs when you don't have a clue to start with isn't exactly inspiring to making music. I can understand why some people completely leave the DAW route and go "back to basics" without any computers at all.
Then again I never had the finances to get that sort of recording gear back in the day, and even today it's really not an option when DAWs are so easily available. It's just the learning curve which I have to go through first.

[dynamo]

Make use of the full 3 month trial and create a big project with a large number of vst instruments. If w11 holds up to your expectations, buy it. If you feel like it crashes too often buy a daw that is more stable.

Excellent advice!
I didn't even know about the "Pro" trial mode until I read what you said, as there's already a free version. After some trial and error I figured out how to change the license. Better learn things fast in case I want to go for it (so I can take advantage of the current 40% discount).

[Watchful]

It would have made sense for Tracktion to roll the DAW essentials in with the current basic paid version. They're not strong enough to be an upgrade but their absence makes the base version seem empty. I always thought it'd be interesting to see Tracktion team up with a small, quality DSP dev to include plugins stock with Waveform (such as Klanghelm, Tokyo Dawn, D16, Apulsoft, U-He, etc). Unfortunately they opted to do this with Airwindows, whose plugins are already free and not worth using, IMO. The Airwindows inclusion doesn't really fill the effects gap between the basic and enhanced version.

This is an extremely good idea. Extremely good.

[dynamo]

It would have made sense for Tracktion to roll the DAW essentials in with the current basic paid version. They're not strong enough to be an upgrade but their absence makes the base version seem empty.

I see that Watchful concurs, but there's a higher risk of crashes if I don't stick to just the plugins Traction themselves provide, right?
But at US$ 159 they should beat what's available out there for free. I like the uniform and professional appearance though I might as well save my money and go for the US$ 119 "Basic" Pro-version then (actually even less because of the 40% discount they're keeping for the next few days as far as I remember).
Are there other "bread and butter" plugin collections out there which are of better quality, compatible with WF11 (well made and properly tested so it won't crash all the time) that can be recommended?
I can see how it's easy to spend hours and days researching which plugins are worthwhile (particularly for a newbie like myself). But doesn't WF11 come with many basic plugins already?

Unfortunately they opted to do this with Airwindows, whose plugins are already free and not worth using, IMO. The Airwindows inclusion doesn't really fill the effects gap between the basic and enhanced version.

I looked up Airwindow's website which I frankly found a little cumbersome to look through. But are you saying that the same plugins (perhaps with a different graphical user interface) as in the DAW essentials pack are available there for free?

I think if you specifically want an 80s vibe, most DAWs won't nail that with stock plugins. You could check out D16's Silver Line of modulation effects, Valhalla's delay/reverb, or Goodhertz Megaverb, off the top of my head. Tokyo Dawn and Melda also have great free dynamics and eq options if you find the base effects as underwhelming as I do.

Thanks for those suggestions. I'll give them a look. Now and then I've also found "professional quality" type plugins available for free, especially now with all the Covid 19 deals, but tracking those deals down and trying them out all takes a lot of time.
To start with I think I just need some basic, "general use" effect plugins so I don't drown in too many options. In addition to learning the DAW I could end up spending the rest of my time fiddling with plugins and their settings instead of making music
Come to think of it... don't most DAWs have a "template" option? In that case it might be a good idea for me to first spend some time creating an 80s vibe template with the most commonly used effects/settings and use that as a starting point for creating new songs.

[Watchful]

I read somewhere that many of its crashes are due to poorly made plugins which have been thoroughly tested with "the big players" (Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase, Ableton Live etc.) but not with the lesser known DAWs (such as Waveform).

That's part of it, but the real issue is that Waveform adheres strictly to the various rules and standards about plugin formats, and many developers don't. Many have no idea there are standards. And any issue or mistake--tolerated by many DAWs--gets shut down by Waveform as non-compliant.

I also read that Waveform hasn't quite caught on big-time because it has a history of being "silently abandoned" by Mackie until it was taken back by the original owner (and further updated/supported) and its previous status has kind of stuck/

Also very true, but the "comeback" of Tracktion has really happened in the last couple of years only, and it is starting to be taken very seriously again all over the place. The PR campaign has been huge, but there's still a lot of hill to climb for them.

Are you referring to the "Basic", "Standard" or "Extreme" W11 Pro versions with those instruments? Or is there really just one "Pro" version (Basic) while the other two are just discounted packages of that and some separately purchaseable instruments?

I lose track myself. I use Waveform Pro, and am referring specifically to Collective, 4OSC, Subtractive, and Multisampler. They're excellent, and recommend them for anyone. I'm not sure any more what is included or excluded in the free versions. I purchased Spacecraft separately and love it.

And a virtual sampler totally beats the old way of doing it. I know some disagree, but the difference between a Korg DSS-1 and Multisampler is night and day. You sound like an old schooler youself, so I think you'll love how easy it is on a large display with all your editing tools right there.

Are there step-by-step instructions somewhere on how to do what you described?

Sure.

1. Create a MIDI clip on your instrument track. Make it only a second or two long. You might want to zoom in on it!
2. Double click it to open it in the MIDI editor.
3. Click on the + symbol next to the Controllers button below the piano roll and select the Control Changes flyout.
4. Select 0-Bank Select (this is the same as MSB)
5. A red line appears. Drag this up or down to your synth's MSB number.
6. Repeat, selecting 32-Bank Select (fine)
7. Drag the red line up or down, selecting your synth's LSB number.
8. Repeat step 3, but select Program Change, instead of Control Changes. Select Bank One.
9. Drag the red line up or down until you get the proper program number.
10. Ready? Your synth expects these in a particular order, so they can't occur at the same time. Make sure your Properties panel (the one across the bottom of the screen) is visible.
11. Click on the Bank Select red line. Set its start time to 1,1,001 in the Midi Events window that appears.
12. Click on the Bank Select Fine red line, and set it to 1,1,025.
13. Click on the Program Change red line, and set it to 1,1,050.
14. Experiment with this to make your synth selects the right bank and program by hitting Play on your playback area.

If it works, do yourself a huge favor. Click on that "control" clip you've created, and select "Create Preset" from the Properties pane. Give it a name, and you'll save yourself time later. You can always edit the MSB, and LSB, and Program Change values later, but you won't have to keep recreating this stuff.

If this seems needlessly complicated, it is.

Dave or Roland: you can easily simplify this for us hardware musicians who don't use GM.

1. Select the clip.
2. On "Insert Program Change," let us input the MSB, LSB, and Program number manually.
3. Advantage: super fast creation of the control events, and we can have a different program play for every clip if we want. THIS WOULD BE GREAT FOR THE NEXT 11 UPDATE.

How does the audio side of it work?

Okay, here's the trick, and it's true for pretty much all DAWs.

You need to create at least two tracks for each piece of hardware: the MIDI track and the audio track.

On the MIDI track, select your program by the ridiculous steps above. Note: some hardware manufacturers make a VST for their hardware that lets you set the program number there. I hope yours does, otherwise, you doing the 14 steps up there. Set the Input to your controller or your instrument itself (if it has a MIDI keyboard). Set the Output of the MIDI track to your hardware. All MIDI comes in from the controller and out to the hardware.

On the audio track, select your audio interface as your input and arm the track by click the red dot. How this works varies a little by the interface, but you might be able to select the actual input number on your audio interface so that the very instrument you want to hear is on that track, and nothing else. This depends on how your interface interpets audio channels via USB. You might just, at the least, have a master audio input so you can at least hear your instrument in the mix.

Set the output of this track to Default Audio Output. You should be able to play the controller or keyboard, and hear what happens. You should also be able to send MIDI commands to your instruments as well!

Tip: insert any VST effects on the audio track. Maybe add some glorious delay to that old Roland Alpha Juno!

At present I'll be happy if I can just have it work as the equivalent of a 24-track tape recorder, a mixer with the ability to treat each sound differently (EQ, panning, volume and effects with send/returns) and the usual 80s effects (gated reverb, delay, chorus, flanger and so on).

If you can get the audio working--your steps may need to vary a little from mine--you'll have a heck of a lot more than a 24-track recorder. Waveform supports unlimited tracks, so think of it as a 10,240-track recorder with an unlimited number of EQs, panners, faders, compressors, delays, and so on.

Look for the Waveform 9 user manual. It covers a lot of what you're describing about sends and returns. They're actually easy to do in Waveform, but it isn't covered anywhere else I know of.

[asprog]

One thing I haven't found yet is a free 80s type gated reverb. Maybe I'll have to buy one

https://schulz.audio/products/jp-me-1/

Not tried but it's free...

[spoontechnique]

There's a great way to mitigate the risk of crashes when using third party plugins. Waveform allows you to run plugins through a utility that checks their likely risk of failure. In the "Plugins" page in the Settings tab, you can run "Validate Selected Plugin" and get test results. If there's any failures in there, you should probably pester that plugin dev into fixing them.

The plugin sandbox is currently in beta and I suspect it'll take a while to really get working optimally, but I do use it on "high risk" plugins. So far it's dramatically reduced crashes.

[spoontechnique]

On another note: replicating gated reverb isn't something you need a dedicated plugin for. After all, the original gated reverb was a result of the gate on a talkback mic picking up too much room sound and then cutting it off. Any compressor or gate that enables sidechaining can work for gated reverb.

If you need a sidechain-able gate, it's not free, but I'd highly recommend Kilohearts series of plugins. Their rent-to-own get-everything subscription option is 10 bucks a month and well worth it. They make very usable, clean plugins, and I don't think I've ever had a crash using any of their plugins. And I have done regrettable things to those plugins. Very stable stuff. Reaper also has a free utility plugin series that has a gate, although I can't recall if it can accept sidechaining.

[UnionS8]

I am preparing a list of great free 80's VSTi's for you. Some of them are nearly 1:1 copies of their hardware ancestors (they can even load the original sysex or binary copies of floppy disk images). The others are inspired by synths of that age. Unfortunately I don't have a free time these days, so please be patient

[dynamo]

Spoontechnique: You're right about the gated reverb originally being the result of a gate and a reverb. Is that where "Effect racks" in WF11 comes in?
I have limited knowledge/experience with audio (I'm more of a MIDI-person) and have a lot to learn but I assume I can set up a gated reverb that way and save the setup for use in other projects. I had a quick look at the Kilohearts plugin site and they look very good. There's even a free plugin toolbox which I've downloaded to use with WF11.

The "Validate selected plugin" function is great! I tried it with a couple of 3rd party plugins I really want to use and they thankfully turned out to be problem-free. Very useful!

Asprog: thanks for that JP-ME-1 plugin link which I've now downloaded and tried out. Very nice (both audio-wise and appearancewise) though limited. Then again limited can be very good for just laying out ideas and not get caught up in settings! Much appreciated, and free is always nice

Watchful: I understand from what you're saying that Waveform is (for the time being) "a well kept secret" which has a very promising potential. Largely due to the overwhelming response I've received here I'm leaning towards buying a "pro" license (before the 40% sale is over tomorrow!). I simply don't have time to test every single DAW out there either, so it's a matter of taking my changes and "going all in".

I see some of those software instruments are included in the free version, and even more in the OEM version (which I have a license for -it came bundled with a Mackie product), but I'm mostly concerned about running into limitations, hence going for the "Pro" version.
Do you think I'll need those "Pro" features, or will the free/OEM version do? I have no idea what "Arranger track", "Edit groups", "Track editor", "Modifiers" and "Quick actions" to name a few of the pro features which aren't present in the free/OEM version based on this Waveform version comparison chart.

Using a virtual sampler appears to be a great advantage, and I'm considering selling my 12-bit Yamaha TX-16W and use the Cyclone plugin from Sonic Charge instead. It's basically the same sampler in software form so I can continue to use all my sample disks as before, and it validates fine in WF11

Thanks for those step-by-step instructions which I'll try out. I understand WF11 can do a lot, and I'm guessing that once I get the overall hang of the DAW it'll make more sense and new things will be easier to learn.
I've grabbed the Waveform 9/10/11 user-guide which I've started to read.

I've already had audio working, and now MIDI, so the next step is probably to combine the two and see how that goes.

UnionS8: That's very kind of you to make that list of free 80's plugins. Looking forward to that!

[spoontechnique]

You could use a rack to set up a gated reverb. But you don't need to. It's as simple as setting up a return track with the reverb and slapping a sidechained gate or compressor on it.

To do this, put WF's Send plugin on the source track (say, your snare). Create another track and put the Return plugin on it. Make sure they are set to the same bus. Then put a reverb and your dynamics processor after the Return plugin.

Actually, you could skip the gate altogether. Grab one of Waveform's envelope modifiers and put it on the source track. Then drag it on top of a volume plugin on the reverb track and set it up to pull the volume down after a certain amount of time. Easier done than explained.

[UnionS8]

Or you can
1. create a send on drum track and return on a new track
2. put any reverb of your choice on the FX track (make sure no dry signal comes through, only the wet processed reverb)
3. next add a gate with a sidechain input (dead duck has one, free and dead simple)
4. turn on the sidechain (located on the plugins top panel right after the red close cross) and choose the original track with the drum
5. turn on "external" on the gate plugin, so the gate reacts to the drum, not to the reverb
6. adjust the treshold of the gate to your liking (the gate should let the reverb come for some time, then close)
7. adjust the rest (attack, hold and release). These three parameters shape the reverb tail (how long it sounds, how early it closes and how fast it fades out
It may seem complicated, but it's really very simple.

[dynamo]

Awesome! And that Dead Duck plugin looked great -actually all of them in their free effects bundle are just what I need (simple, straight to the point and with a non-confusing uniform look)... except they're Windows only (I'm on a Mac). Is there anything similar in terms of a general use effects bundle for my platform?

As for the instructions -thanks for taking the time to write this. I will try it out soon.

[asprog]

I thought it was necessary to put the send plugin post fader...

[chico.co.uk]

I thought it was necessary to put the send plugin post fader...

No, it isn't necessary to put it post fader. You'll get different results trying it pre and post fader, see what suits the specific tune best. But you probably will mostly want the send post volume fader.