Tracktion T7 dropping MIDI drum notes

[Markperrymiller]

Hello: I'm new to MIDI-related things, but recently started experimenting with using my Alessis Nitro Mesh drum kit to record MIDI drums in Tracktion T7. I feel like I have everything set up correctly, but when I play back my recording, most of the notes are dropped.

I'm using the Nitro Mesh kit to send MIDI data to my computer via USB straight from the drum brain. I am using the MT-PowerDrumKit2 as the voice source.

The Nitro user's manual describes the drum pad-to-Midi note mapping, which I implemented in the PowerDrumKit2 setup. I can get the Nitro kit to trigger the notes live, but when recording, most of the notes end up being lost.

Any suggestions? Thanks, -Mark

[Peter Widdicombe]

Carefully record a simple hit on all of the pads in a "known sequence", and play them back with a piano patch. If you hear notes on each, you are recording all events, but they just trigger the wrong things (note mapping from the kit to PowerDrumKit don't match and you have to fix that).

If you are missing hits, that's another issue to be looked at.

PowerDrum will have a mapping section, where you tell it what note triggers what pad. You then either have to change what the Nitro sends out, or have (find/create) a mapping on PDK. Sometimes they're off by one octave or something, so C2, for instance, isn't a bass drum and may not even map to anything.

[Markperrymiller]

I have rechecked my pad to note mappings and they appear correct. I can play "live" and get all of the expected sounds and triggers. I just did a simpler test based on what you suggested though...I played 10 snare drum hits in a row. On playback, only 2 are heard.

Is this possibly a computer issue? I'm working off an I3-based laptop with a SSD. It's worked really well for recording so far even though it's not particularly powerful.

Thanks for any other suggestions you may have. I appreciate the input. -Mark

[Watchful]

Did you change the output to a piano (or other) vst as Peter suggested? I think that's a good idea to determine whether it's Waveform not recording/playing back correctly or the Nitro not receiving correctly. If it's Waveform, the problem can be reproduced on playback with a different instrument...it won't play back the same notes, either. If a different instrument plays back all the notes you recorded, then there's an issue with the Nitro receiving them.

[Markperrymiller]

OK, thank you. I'm really new to this, so I hope I'm not overlooking something simple.

I just installed the 2getheraudio Cheeze Machine synth plugin. I replaced the drums with it and tried playback, but it actually plays nothing in this case Should I have expected to hear a series of notes that correspond to the individual snare strikes?

Again, I could hear all of the snare strikes (with the PowerDrum voices, not the Nitro voices) when playing and recording.

I appreciate everyone's input, -Mark

[Peter Widdicombe]

there IS a potential flaw in my logic, in that a drum hit might be extremely low duration and fail to cause a .VST to sound, although a good Piano .vst will normally not miss notes even of short duration. That probably isn't the result with the cheese machine, as the short drum hits will finish long before many cheese machine patches will be audible (Think ADSR - and if that's not familiar to you, read and play with it - it's interesting, and potentially a valuable exercise)... Attack-Decay-Sustain-Release. If your patch has a long attack, it normally needs a longer "keyPress" event before being audible.

Interesting that you only hear 2 events. Double-click the MIDI track you recorded (MIDI editor), and see if the notes are there, but potentially not sounding. You may have to zoom in a little (mouse wheel).

Another troubleshooting "thing" would be to install a MIDI monitor on the track. It's output would be something like:
90 2B 62 Ch.1 Note On: G1 (43), Velocity: 98
80 2B 00 Ch.1 Note Off: G1 (43), Velocity: 0
90 2F 62 Ch.1 Note On: B1 (47), Velocity: 98
80 2F 00 Ch.1 Note Off: B1 (47), Velocity: 0
90 30 62 Ch.1 Note On: C2 (48), Velocity: 98
80 30 00 Ch.1 Note Off: C2 (48), Velocity: 0
90 35 5C Ch.1 Note On: F2 (53), Velocity: 92
80 35 00 Ch.1 Note Off: F2 (53), Velocity: 0
Have it as the first plugin on the right, and open. It will display what shows up on the track.
http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1432. Simple, oldie but a goodie. It makes no sound, just displays what's happening. Get the right version for your Tracktion (32 or 64 bit).

[Watchful]

You probably know all this, but here's the full test:

Set the input of the track to the Alesis Nitro Mesh.

Set the output to your MT-PowerDrumKit2 and the audio to the standard audio output you have.

Take a couple of hits on the Nitro Mesh, and look for activity on the MIDI input: it should flicker and flash with every hit. If so, you have MIDI going to the track.

Do you hear the vst responding with the appropriate sounds? If so, you've got MIDI properly set up.

Arm the track by click on the red dot on the input.

Press record.

Take a couple of test hits...and really push it.

Press stop on the recording.

You should see a clip appear on the track with MIDI data in it. Put the playhead back before the clip and hit play. You should hear everything play back. If not, something's amiss.

Now, per Peter's suggestion, change the vst from MT-PowerDrumKit2 to Cheeze Machine. Do all the notes play back, even though they're probably random notes?

[Peter Widdicombe]

Again, cheese machine probably isn't a good .vst for drum kicks, although some "sharp, sudden attach" patches might be OK. You want a .vst of any kind that will respond to anything from, say, C1 to C4 (where most drum kits tend to have the common kick/snare/tom/cymbals). You just want anything that will respond to any/all note events of short duration.

(It can be bizzarely interesting to hear a wild drum solo come out as a drunken french horn player... )

[Markperrymiller]

This is helpful. Thank you. It's not solved yet, but I'm learning.

I installed the MIDI monitor and also zoomed in on the track. I can see dots that correspond to 17 snare drum hits on the track. However, the MIDI monitor (good tip!) only seems to reflect two strikes, which corresponds to what I hear on playback.

Here's a screenshot. Little dots on the purple track are the snare strikes.

Any thoughts? Is there a threshold setting somewhere that I can tinker with?

Again, I appreciate everyone's input!

[astey]

This is helpful. Thank you. It's not solved yet, but I'm learning.

I installed the MIDI monitor and also zoomed in on the track. I can see dots that correspond to 17 snare drum hits on the track. However, the MIDI monitor (good tip!) only seems to reflect two strikes, which corresponds to what I hear on playback.

Here's a screenshot. Little dots on the purple track are the snare strikes.

Any thoughts? Is there a threshold setting somewhere that I can tinker with?

Again, I appreciate everyone's input!

hit ctrl + a to select all notes, then select "len = 1/16 beat in the top menu of the midi editor. this will make hits visible. after that you can check velocity. its on the left of the top menu. also check the controls panel.
some midi cc controls might be recorded and mute your midi notes. you can reach them by control on the left of the top bar. highlighted items contain data

speaking about cpu: this midi monitor vst draws a lot of cpu, be careful if you want to catch a lot of notes such as midi clock.

[Markperrymiller]

That worked!!! Except for the ctl+a thing...that selected all tracks and didn't seem to have an effect. But I was able to use the cursor to lasso/select all of the notes and change the length.

Is that something that I should expect to do on all drum tracks? It seems like that should be something encoded automatically in the MIDI data itself.

If this is a routine process for MIDI drums, what is a typical note length to use?

Thanks again...I'm learning.

[Watchful]

Nice work, Astey!

[Peter Widdicombe]

https://getsatisfaction.com/alesis/topi ... it-is-tiny from a quick google search on Alesis notes too short. Evidently other users have had the same issues with Reaper and ProTools.

[astey]

Happy to help!

ctrl + a seems to work in the midi editor exclusively.
A small comfort could be clicking on the midi roll (piano on the left of a clip) by holding ctrl. This will select all notes on the respective key/pitch. If you just want to edit your kick and snare this might be sufficient.

I use a tool called "eDrum Midi Mapper", which is superb. It allows me to use choke of my edrums cymbals, which send aftertouch information only. However, little to none vst supports aftertouch. Midi mapper translates aftertouch to notes. Also, I can load different maps to assign my toms to the correct midi notes the vst listens to. For example NI Komplete Kontrol has a different mapping than Addictive drums.
Since development has stopped it became free: http://audiomidi.chaoticbox.com/
It works in conjunction with a virtual midi cable such as loopMidi (also free): https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html
maybe it will extend your midi notes too if you route all your toms accordingly?

cheers

[Markperrymiller]

Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions. I've now had time to really check this out and it is indeed working really well. Very cool! It opens a lot of doors for me.

And it's definitely an odd quirk of the Alesis stuff, but I'm happy that this workaround exists.

Much appreciated, -Mark