Hive vs Zebra/Diva - legato

[Ghost Dog]

When I play Diva, the legato between adjacent notes doesn't seem to retrigger the envelopes, so a swipe across the white keys gives a sort of a "Theremin" effect (Zebra can do this as well in its "duophonic" mode).

It's a beautiful sound/effect which I just can't seem to achieve with Hive (only the "machine gun" effect on swipes).

Any ideas? Am I missing something or it just isn't possible (please don't tell me it is so )?

I suppose some sort of MIDI delay that only affects the note off events would take care of it and this only happens when played on a virtual keyboard and not an actual MIDI keyboard, but it would be nice to know why the differences are there.

[Viktor [TUC]]

Hi Ghost Dog,

if you set Hive to "legato" and turn up Glide a little, you should get exactly the same thing.
Can you try that and report back?

Viktor
u-he team

[Ghost Dog]

Hi Victor, I should have mentioned that I have (of course) tried that and even more:

-In Diva and Hive the selected mode (as in, one of the mono modes), has no effect: Diva = "Theremin"; Hive = "machine gun";
-In Zabra, it actually does: duophonic = "Theremin"; all the others = "machine gun"

(I guess the "Theremin"/ "machine gun" references are a bit iffy, but they get the point across.)

Edit:

When I say adjacent, I mean literally, as in, the previous note ends on one sample and the next note starts on the next sample. No pause and no overlap either.

[Viktor [TUC]]

Since it works well here, I suspect something else in the patch causes this, but I'd be happy to take a look. (or I misunderstand the problem and am testing something different)
Could you send an example preset for Diva and Hive to support[at]u-he.com that demonstrates this, or attach them to a reply here in this thread?
And let me know what type of MIDI controller you use too.

Thanks!
Viktor
u-he team

[Ghost Dog]

I can send you the Reaper project.

Is that ok?

Edit:

Here's the full Reaper project, the MIDI file and the presets for all three synths. The project also displays the behaviour of other synths (DUNE and Sylenth1 act like Hive and Spire acts like Diva).

[Viktor [TUC]]

Thanks for the file, I see what you mean now.
Well, what you hear is the simple difference between an analogue approach and a digital one.
Diva uses a single voice in mono modes, thus your non-overlapping example feels more connected. Whereas Hive works like digital synths have worked for decades, in that in mono modes, the synth uses two alternating voices. When played in the manner of your example project, the notes feel less connected.

Viktor
u-he team

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah, I figured it was by design. Thanks for the reply.

Any chance you might consider implementing the option to chose between the two?

[Urs]

Yeah, I figured it was by design. Thanks for the reply.

Any chance you might consider implementing the option to chose between the two?

There's a pretty big difference in how envelopes need to be designed to get this done. I do think about this sometimes, maybe as an option for another engine for Hive - which would have its own envelopes. Haven't made up my mind yet.

[Ghost Dog]

Thank you.

I knew it wasn't a trivial task but it would be a nice addition

[EvilDragon]

Just overlap the notes. That is the only proper legato. If you have even a single tick of gap between the notes, it's not proper legato.

[Ghost Dog]

Just overlap the notes. That is the only proper legato. If you have even a single tick of gap between the notes, it's not proper legato.

I already use that trick/technique (as I implied earlier and as you can see in that Reaper project I supplied), I know what a proper legato is (that much I do know about music theory) and this is not a music class.

Here, the differences between synth engines are being discussed.

[Howard]

EvilDragon wasn't trying to lecture you, Ghost Dog, but I suppose one has to know him first. He always tries to be helpful

[Ghost Dog]

EvilDragon wasn't trying to lecture you, Ghost Dog, but I suppose one has to know him first. He always tries to be helpful

Howard, I promise you I wasn't trying to be an ass when I replied to him (and especially not now when replying to you), but, honestly, it very much did seem like he was.

(Again, nothing even remotely sinister on my part either and also, I very much don't care about dragging this any further.)