KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:21 am

The 4-pole filter might not be the best choice at high resonance amounts but for sure it is very useful for certain sounds, especially with small amounts of resonance or no resonance. FWIW i was able to create some really "fat" sounding Bass and Brass sounds with the 4-pole filter. Especially with Brass sounds the 4-pole filter often seems to be the better choice and i made a bunch of such sounds with OBsession (besides many other patches from other categories...).

As already mentioned for high resonance amounts the 2-pole filter might indeed be the better choice (concerning keeping the low end) but this also depends on if the amount of low end really matters for a specific patch with high resonance. On the other hand certain sounds do not really work as intended when switching from the 4-pole to the 2-pole LPF. It's a matter of which sound you want to get.

While you can indeed get some very nice bass sounds with them the OB-Xa and OBsession are polysynths and not specifically designed to create bass sounds but also lots of other stuff.
With the additional Bandpass modes in OBsession the low end is not that important anyway as in a BPF low frequencies are mostly filtered out (except at low Cutoff values). The BPF modes are resonant like their LPF counterparts.

OrangeSlices · Post by **OrangeSlices** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:51 am

Emu sounds like crap because original synth sounds like crap, so emu is actually really good" is next level stuff, contorting narrative where no narrative has gone before.

which is also why we have less actual artists, more forum "experts" wanking about.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:52 am

EnGee wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:19 am I want to understand because I think the sound in Sleepwalk (Ultravox) at about 1:30 is not with the OB Xa, while the OB Xa used only for those low fat heavy chords. Right?

That looks like an OB-X to me and that model only has the SEM based 2 pole filter, which is way better. (OB-Xa has both.)

But is that not the best synth solo in the history of music? Billy Currie is a (now officially retired) genius.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:09 am

BONES wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:52 am That looks like an OB-X to me and that model only has the SEM based 2 pole filter, which is way better. (OB-Xa has both.)

Actually no - the OB-Xa has a 2-pole filter, but it is only a low-pass one, not the SEM multimode filter with variable position (IMO one of the best and most underrated filter designs ever made, better than the celebrated Moog ladder).

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:11 am

BONES wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:52 am
EnGee wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:19 am I want to understand because I think the sound in Sleepwalk (Ultravox) at about 1:30 is not with the OB Xa, while the OB Xa used only for those low fat heavy chords. Right?
That looks like an OB-X to me and that model only has the SEM based 2 pole filter, which is way better. (OB-Xa has both.)

But is that not the best synth solo in the history of music? Billy Currie is a (now officially retired) genius.

Of course it is

I'm glad we have the same taste in this one

Anyway, I know that Currie was the musician of the band but in the video it seems the other one (bassist) who is playing this solo on another synth. I will search more because I've never read the details about one of the best songs in history (to me at least).

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:40 am

We did a cover of it on our third album and we've played it live a few times. I wouldn't dare screw too much with the solo, I did it note-for-note like he did. It would be interesting to try doing it full-on with my Roli.

schpaeckulum wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:27 amThey didn't know how to make a good 4-pole filter, or did it like that on purpose? If your oscillator section is limited, are you going to include two samey filters after it, or make them different, just to open up more sound design possibilities?

I reckon they might have wanted something specifically to tempt Moog users, otherwise they could have just chained two SEMs together in series to get their 4 pole. What I don't understand is why they didn't include the full SEM filter, with it's three modes and the morphing between them.

urosh wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:20 amEmu sounds like crap

Emu never made a sound because Rod Hull wasn't a ventriloquist.

Ingonator wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:21 amthe OB-Xa and OBsession are polysynths and not specifically designed to create bass sounds but also lots of other stuff.

You know, I think that's a distinction we make now, in the 21st Century, that wouldn't have occurred to Mr Oberheim when he was designing this thing. Anyway, with a keyboard split you could be playing a bassline with one hand and chords with the other so the versatility is definitely needed.

fmr wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:09 am
BONES wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:52 am That looks like an OB-X to me and that model only has the SEM based 2 pole filter, which is way better. (OB-Xa has both.)
Actually no - the OB-Xa has a 2-pole filter, but it is only a low-pass one, not the SEM multimode filter with variable position

Which is precisely why I said "SEM based". That said, some sources say only the OB-X's filter was SEM based and that both filters in the Xa were new. But they are very different.

(IMO one of the best and most underrated filter designs ever made, better than the celebrated Moog ladder).

That is something we can absolutely agree on. I asked Rich about putting the SEM into OBsession but he pretended not to notice. (I doubt he'd have done it anyway, unless I bought him a SEM to model it from.)

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:53 am

BONES wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:40 am ... some sources say only the OB-X's filter was SEM based and that both filters in the Xa were new. But they are very different.
(IMO one of the best and most underrated filter designs ever made, better than the celebrated Moog ladder).
That is something we can absolutely agree on. I asked Rich about putting the SEM into OBsession but he pretended not to notice. (I doubt he'd have done it anyway, unless I bought him a SEM to model it from.)

Yep, both filters in the OB-Xa were new, indeed. The SEM filter was a discrete circuit, while the filters in the OB-Xa come (both) from CEM3320 chips. But this chip wasn't explored in its full potential until the Elka Synthex.

https://electricdruid.net/cem3320-filter-designs/

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:17 am

Great! Thanks for the info

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:20 am

BONES wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:40 am I asked Rich about putting the SEM into OBsession but he pretended not to notice. (I doubt he'd have done it anyway, unless I bought him a SEM to model it from.)

If that's something for a future update, I'd be all over it.

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:28 pm

20 bass presets with 4 and 2 poles :
https://soundcloud.com/ccarrieres/test-bass-obsession

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:18 pm

chk071 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:32 am Somehow Bones doesn't seem to like 4 poles.

hard to get 8 legs in position, 10 of you count his.

abernathy · Post by **abernathy** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:55 pm

I'm so confused by this thread... So the release is delayed because Rich had to go back and make it sound crappier to be more accurate? I wish he would just release it as is, then he can have updates to make it sound worse. My wallet is ready and eager!

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:04 pm

carrieres wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:28 pm 20 bass presets 4 and 2 poles :
https://soundcloud.com/ccarrieres/test-bass-obsession

I am confused.
Are these from Obsession?
rsp

abernathy · Post by **abernathy** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:12 pm

carrieres wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:28 pm 20 bass presets 4 and 2 poles :
https://soundcloud.com/ccarrieres/test-bass-obsession

Sounds great to me! I love those crappy filters. Nice presets!

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:14 pm

zvenx wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:04 pm
carrieres wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:28 pm 20 bass presets 4 and 2 poles :
https://soundcloud.com/ccarrieres/test-bass-obsession
I am confused.
Are these from Obsession?
rsp

Are you confused by the name of the track "test-bass-obsession" ?

Upcoming Synapse OB-Xa: Obsession