Chord Companion Not What I Expected And Music Theory

[JWParenteau]

I was expecting the "Chord Companion" to be a type of one note to chord creator that follows the global key and scale.

Now, after checking it out, I figure it's a type of "Chord Pad" for a pad controller that seems to skew based on the global key and scale.

What I did was put a standard C major chord progression (I-ii-iii-VI-V-vi-vii°) on all the whole notes all the way up the pads, increasing the octave as I went. Then, when I switched the global root from C to D, it swaps the C major with a D major, instead of a C diminished

Not only that, but C diminished from that progression is supposed to be a C# diminished

I'm not formally trained, so my whole concept of music theory and scale chord relationships just got blown out of my head?
For me, I always thought all scales (major and minor) that start on whole notes *white keys" where only compatible with chords that started (root) on whole notes "white keys".
I guess it makes sense that all the chords have to start on the notes of the corresponding scale, but it does kinda feel too simple.

Then again, I have been avoiding learning chords that start on half notes because they feel awkward to play on the piano, probably fine on the guitar.

I've also been avoiding a bunch of composition situations because I felt they where dissonant, I guess now I know why.

I wanted to compose in B major because I felt it was the most melodic and I wanted something with "fun" and "lively" but I looked it up and my idea of B major progression is "B eight tone spanish"!
My "B major" in a chord progression detector:scales-chords.com

and my recent D minor composition was a bunch of different things:
My "D minor" in a chord progression detector:scales-chords.com
I knew something wasn't sounding right, swapped it out and it sounds more "right".

Even though, the "Chord Companion" doesn't suit my needs because it doesn't shift how I expected with the global root and scale, it totally taught me a lesson in music theory.

I can't believe I missed that this whole time! 20 years!

I guess I still got the chord track, but I was hoping I could get better rhythms with faster changes between chords. Programming that chord track bar doesn't give much for improvisation. A step editor, live recording to chord track by single note or recorded notes to chord track would be nice.

Probably the best money I ever spent on music tools.

I've attached my "C Major Mode" Chord Companion preset, so much for a "Minor Mode".

Major Mode.zip

[JWParenteau]

P.S. I like how the Chord Companion shows all the possible chords for that scale.

P.P.S. To me a "Power Chord" on a guitar is a "Fifth Octave" not just a "Fifth", they both make for a good replacement to a standard chord to me (Ma/Mi/Di) when keeping a composition in a mood.

[astey]

I don't get your music theory.
If you change the root by a whole tone. C becomes D. C diminished is a chord based on c, eb, gb. It’s something different.

Solution:
If you aren’t able to play sharp keys, play c major or a minor scale and use a midi pitch shifter. W11 has at least one, available in the browser.
Waveform 11 has a step mode in its midi editor. Its called step in the floating menu bar.

Modern midi master keyboards (the advanced once) or pad controller offer scale modes as well. Set a scale and all notes outside of the scale aren’t accessible: Ni Komplete series, akai advance series, ableton push, launchpad and many more.

[JWParenteau]

I don't get your music theory.
If you change the root by a whole tone. C becomes D. C diminished is a chord based on c, eb, gb. It’s something different.

Yes, but the trigger is still C.

For example:
-If I use the key of C and the scale of major and have a have my first note on C in the piano roll; the "Major Mode" preset in the Chord Companion puts C Major in the C trigger spot.

-Then, if I shift the global scale up to D, my C moves up to D; the Chord Companion puts a D Major in the C trigger spot.

-When my D note is triggered, it actually plays E minor; because Chord Companion put it there.

I imagine the Chord Companion was designed for pad controllers. It give the illusion that everything is moving across the pads. But if you look at the recorded MIDI data, it'll likely be wrong; it is at least it is for my usage.

If you aren’t able to play sharp keys, play c major or a minor scale and use a midi pitch shifter. W11 has at least one, available in the browser.

Whether its the "MIDI Modifier" (MIDI Processing) or the "Pitch Shifter" (Audio Processing), neither follow the global key and scale, so I'd have to go and reset them after switching the global key and scale for a variable amount of tracks.

If the MIDI modifier comes after the chord track, it doesn't properly diatonically transpose the chords, this is the problem with the tools in FL Studio.
Cakewalk has diatonic transposition but it doesn't compare to Waveform.

Waveform 11 has a step mode in its midi editor. Its called step in the floating menu bar.

I'm talking to target the chord track. Change the selected chords with a root note by stepping.

Modern midi master keyboards (the advanced once) or pad controller offer scale modes as well. Set a scale and all notes outside of the scale aren’t accessible: Ni Komplete series, akai advance series, ableton push, launchpad and many more.

I'm making $0 off my music right now and over the 20ish years I've been making music, I've probably never receive a total reaching a triple digit. Yet the amount I've put in is probably breaking the six digit.

I have a Casio CTK-3200 that I bought for ~$100, second hand. She was pretty beaten up, mysterious splatters, sharpied note letters on the keys, tape fossilized on the keys, no battery cover, and no music book stand, but she works. I cleaned her up and named her "Tammy", after the that ripped me off.
I lived in an isolated community, and I wanted something now; she's my keys.

If I was to get another one, I'd probably opt for a KeyStep Pro to actually have some fun live sequencing or a light up Casio to learn these half note root chords faster (and play with the lights )

Having the money for a Roland Fantom with the Super Natural Expansions will be nice, I'll probably just stare at it for a week. I really only want it for the drums and IK's MODO Drum almost handles all of that.

When I sit down in front of a keyboard, I actually play in the key with the scale. I just thought Chord Compantion might accel my "Sequencing/Mixing" day.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

[pough]

Yes, but the trigger is still C.

Don't think of it as C, think of it as trigger number 48 (or whatever.)

That's the glory and pain of MIDI. There is data, and the software receiving the data interprets it as it pleases. Sometimes it seems to make sense but it never has to.

Remember that you can add multiple C-based chords to your chord companion. If C was always C, you couldn't have C and Cdim and C7 and C11 as options at the same time, nor could you have the inversions of C spread across various pads.

How're you gonna play Jump without the inversions?

[astey]

I don't get your music theory.
If you change the root by a whole tone. C becomes D. C diminished is a chord based on c, eb, gb. It’s something different.

Yes, but the trigger is still C.

For example:
-If I use the key of C and the scale of major and have a have my first note on C in the piano roll; the "Major Mode" preset in the Chord Companion puts C Major in the C trigger spot.

-Then, if I shift the global scale up to D, my C moves up to D; the Chord Companion puts a D Major in the C trigger spot.

-When my D note is triggered, it actually plays E minor; because Chord Companion put it there.

I imagine the Chord Companion was designed for pad controllers. It give the illusion that everything is moving across the pads. But if you look at the recorded MIDI data, it'll likely be wrong; it is at least it is for my usage.

I don’t see the problem,
if you switch your song to Dmaj, why would you want to continue to play a Cmaj on the C key on your Keyboard still.
Because, if it doesn’t shift chords on your physical keys, you would need to play f# to trigger the iii chord of the Dmaj scale. Sometimes you don't want. Aren’t you?

Or is it the conception that the recorded & displayed notes in the midi editor must reflect the notes you‘re hearing?
The chord plugin works “post recording“, therefore midi is altered after the midi clip.

Solution:
Just route the output of the existing Midi data track with chord companion to a new track and record it there. Then you see what you hear.

[JWParenteau]

I don’t see the problem,
if you switch your song to Dmaj, why would you want to continue to play a Cmaj on the C key on your Keyboard still.
Because, if it doesn’t shift chords on your physical keys, you would need to play f# to trigger the iii chord of the Dmaj scale. Sometimes you don't want. Aren’t you?

Or is it the conception that the recorded & displayed notes in the midi editor must reflect the notes you‘re hearing?
The chord plugin works “post recording“, therefore midi is altered after the midi clip.

If I switch my song to Dmaj, I don't play Cmaj on the C trigger at all but now, I must be playing Dmaj instead of Emin; on the D trigger. Cmaj on the C trigger key must become C#Dim (according to proper music theory).

The global key must shift the chord progression, not the root of the chord on the triggers.

Solution:
Just route the output of the existing Midi data track with chord companion to a new track and record it there. Then you see what you hear.

The only solution i can figure is that the MIDI data will have to be shifted down by the number of notes that the key shifts up, and the "MIDI Modifier" doesn't follow the global key automatically; especially in reverse.

I'm not about to go through all my monophony lines to chord type tracks to shift everything down every time I change my key, but thinking about it, I'll want to if I want to use Chord Companion the way I want.

Even as a pad tool, for instance:
-A pad is set to trigger C in the key of C in the scale of major, the Chord Companion has CMaj on the C Trigger. A composer records a C note to trigger Cmaj.

-The composer also records a scale that starts with the root of C.

-Now when the composer shifts the global key from C to D, the MIDI data for the monophony line to chord type track shifts to D and the MIDI note for the scale shifts to D.

-The Chord Companion puts an Emin in the D trigger and the scale root shifts to D.

-So, during playback, the Chord Companion plays an Emin while the scale plays a D note.

It's wrong
The Chord Companion must play a DMaj with the D note.
The Chord Companion is jumping up a note, and changes the composition.

[JWParenteau]

The reason, I imagine, Chord Companion does this is to give the illusion to pad players that the pads are changing along with the global key and scale but in reality they're recording the wrong notes to chord progression.

If they switch to a keyboard controller (while using the same Chord Companion), they would be sorely disappointed and confused.

[pough]

It's wrong
The Chord Companion must play a DMaj with the D note.
The Chord Companion is jumping up a note, and changes the composition.

It's not wrong, it's just not conforming to your expectations. The most accurate thing you've said was in the title: "Chord Companion Not What I Expected".

[pough]

Try to think of it this way:

1. What you think of a the note C is not note C. It has no pitch. It is a trigger. Trigger #48.
2. You can set trigger #48 to play ANY chord. Doesn't have to be a variation of a C chord. See image below.
3. You set it to the chord that is the tonic I chord in the current key. If the key is Cmaj then it's a Cmaj. But don't get attached to C.
4. That trigger #48 will ALWAYS play the I chord in the dominant key. It's stuck on the I chord, not a C-based chord.
5. If you change the key to Dmaj, what is the I chord? Dmaj. That's what it will play.

Trigger. Not a note.

You can set trigger #54 (F#) to play the iii chord (Em in key of Cmaj) if you like. If you change the key to Dmaj it will play the iii chord in Dmaj, which is coincidentally F#m.

Some people have pointed out that it might be easier to grok if the displays showed chord numbers (eg. I ii iii, etc) instead of note-based chords.
https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... -companion

But you can put chords outside the scale into a pad. What number does C#aug get if the key is Cmaj?

Check this out!

Annotation 2020-06-05 221650.png

[pough]

Oops. Thought was editing a post.

[UnionS8]

I see the current behavior perfect. As said before. I always expect that all scale degrees stay on the same keyboard key (same trigger). I have set it up this way allready. One octave on keyboard basic chords, the other octave 7ths 9ths, the lower octave diminished, suspended and so on. No matter which scale, the chords are still on the spot (or their scale equivalents).
Maybe what would be nice is the poresence of modifier triggers. Let's say the lowest octave could be reserved for triggers which, pressed together with a chord trigger, would modify the final chord (add tensions, shift inversions, ...).

[JWParenteau]

Try to think of it this way:

1. What you think of a the note C is not note C. It has no pitch. It is a trigger. Trigger #48.
2. You can set trigger #48 to play ANY chord. Doesn't have to be a variation of a C chord. See image below.
3. You set it to the chord that is the tonic I chord in the current key. If the key is Cmaj then it's a Cmaj. But don't get attached to C.
4. That trigger #48 will ALWAYS play the I chord in the dominant key. It's stuck on the I chord, not a C-based chord.
5. If you change the key to Dmaj, what is the I chord? Dmaj. That's what it will play.

Trigger. Not a note.

You can set trigger #54 (F#) to play the iii chord (Em in key of Cmaj) if you like. If you change the key to Dmaj it will play the iii chord in Dmaj, which is coincidentally F#m.

Some people have pointed out that it might be easier to grok if the displays showed chord numbers (eg. I ii iii, etc) instead of note-based chords.
https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... -companion

But you can put chords outside the scale into a pad. What number does C#aug get if the key is Cmaj?

Check this out!

Annotation 2020-06-05 221650.png

Then I call it "Chord Pad Companion".

I see the current behavior perfect. As said before. I always expect that all scale degrees stay on the same keyboard key (same trigger). I have set it up this way allready. One octave on keyboard basic chords, the other octave 7ths 9ths, the lower octave diminished, suspended and so on. No matter which scale, the chords are still on the spot (or their scale equivalents).
Maybe what would be nice is the poresence of modifier triggers. Let's say the lowest octave could be reserved for triggers which, pressed together with a chord trigger, would modify the final chord (add tensions, shift inversions, ...).

Okay, So, I guess I get it; it's an evolution of the "MIDI Chord Player".

It's disappointing to me to see this is the way development is going. I don't see the application of having my keys play the wrong root, and "MIDI Chord Player" is not what I'm looking for.

See, I'm not part of the Tracktion movement, my experience is 20 years of FL Studio. So, my movement is unlimited modulators and internal controllers. I don't really know how the other DAWs treat there users to workflow.

I've always been FL, until I met chord track, and the ability to change a complete composition to a different root/key/mode with a couple clicks is astounding to me.

I mean I can take a sad D and turn it into a powerful E or a playful B.
Or, figure out the natural tones and key of a vocal performer and wrap the composition around them, instead of asking them to change their performance to suit my composition.

Waveform's ability to do this, beat out Cubase, Studio one, and any other DAW with a chord track. What really sold it to me was this video:


I'll admit, I was disappointed to find out the key/scale switcher only works for "Pattern Generator" presets after I got into it.

I still have yet to check out Band in a Box and Rapid Composer.

It just occurred to me that I can make a "MIDI filter" for Waveform that does what I want. I have around 15 years experience with SynthEdit and because the 1.4 64bit doesn't accept MIDI channels, the pitch bender doesn't record that parameter internally, and there is no MIDI output, I've taken up Flowstone. I told myself I would spend a year in it anyway to furthur practice DSP, honestly, SynthEdit is starting to become more of logic puzzles, pushing the limits and less about DSP.

Makes me wonder how Waveform's plug-ins get the key/scale from the global parameter.

So yea, "Chord Companion" is not for me, it's for those who know Tracktion/Waveform and have been expecting something like it to extend the workflow they're used to.

[fde101]

If I correctly understand what you are trying to do, you might want to add Scaler to your list of things to look into:

https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/6439-Scaler-2

[UnionS8]

So yea, "Chord Companion" is not for me, it's for those who know Tracktion/Waveform and have been expecting something like it to extend the workflow they're used to.

Maybe you could try to insert a Waveform's MIDI modifier plugin prior the Chord Companion and transpose the MIDI input desired halftones up or down. So you can play the right scale keys, but the Chord Companion will get always the right key MIDI numbers mapped to pads.