Working on a Device in MSF: "Reproduction" of the classical analog mono synth Octave Cat
- KVRAF
- 2483 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
Hi all,
I'm currently working on a little exercise which is inspired by Behringers re-releases of classic analog synths: I try to reproduce the Octave Cat in MSF.
To manage expectations - My goal is to reprode the signal path as close as possible. Don't expect it to be 1:1 in sound because this will not work in MSF. Additionally I have to do some guess work, when I'm not 100% sure how parameters work on the original CAT.
I've almost finished the basic Oscillator section with 2 Oscillators which are actually made of a mix of 4 basic waveforms. I'm a bit proud that only through the "GenCustomCMod" (my Feature Request) module I was able to implement the cross oscillator pitch modulation. Give it a try modulate oscillator 1 with oscillator 2. The other way around is not implemented yet.
There's still a lot of things misssing, like the filter section, LFO controls and several other things.
You can find the current WiP Device in the attachment wrapped into a zip file (s. PHU_CAT Synth 002.zip).
Would anybody be interested in the final thingy? Could such a synth go as "donation ware"?
BR
] Peter:H [
I'm currently working on a little exercise which is inspired by Behringers re-releases of classic analog synths: I try to reproduce the Octave Cat in MSF.
To manage expectations - My goal is to reprode the signal path as close as possible. Don't expect it to be 1:1 in sound because this will not work in MSF. Additionally I have to do some guess work, when I'm not 100% sure how parameters work on the original CAT.
I've almost finished the basic Oscillator section with 2 Oscillators which are actually made of a mix of 4 basic waveforms. I'm a bit proud that only through the "GenCustomCMod" (my Feature Request) module I was able to implement the cross oscillator pitch modulation. Give it a try modulate oscillator 1 with oscillator 2. The other way around is not implemented yet.
There's still a lot of things misssing, like the filter section, LFO controls and several other things.
You can find the current WiP Device in the attachment wrapped into a zip file (s. PHU_CAT Synth 002.zip).
Would anybody be interested in the final thingy? Could such a synth go as "donation ware"?
BR
] Peter:H [
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Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 307 posts since 18 May, 2020
I really like the idea of recreating synths in MSF and a good recreation would finally prove MSF's usability. Now I unfortunatley don't know the original synth, but this device you've build has definitley character. Most devices, which are included in the MSF package sound (at least for my ears) often little boring and the presets are only little variations of the main sound. In your device I could make really good sounding presets within seconds. I have also noticed, while tweaking, that the synth produces lots of unforeseen noise, what I personally like a lot, as it reminds me of the chaos in the universe
The only question is, if the original behaves the same way. If not, then someone might feel like this device is little buggy.
Yes, yes] Peter:H [ wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:32 pm Would anybody be interested in the final thingy? Could such a synth go as "donation ware"?
Last chance
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2483 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
Thanks a lot for your feedback, Tyrs.Tyrs wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:08 pm I really like the idea of recreating synths in MSF and a good recreation would finally prove MSF's usability. Now I unfortunatley don't know the original synth, but this device you've build has definitley character. Most devices, which are included in the MSF package sound (at least for my ears) often little boring and the presets are only little variations of the main sound. In your device I could make really good sounding presets within seconds. I have also noticed, while tweaking, that the synth produces lots of unforeseen noise, what I personally like a lot, as it reminds me of the chaos in the universeThe only question is, if the original behaves the same way. If not, then someone might feel like this device is little buggy.
Yes, yes] Peter:H [ wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:32 pm Would anybody be interested in the final thingy? Could such a synth go as "donation ware"?
Though it is only semi-encouraging to only have your single feedback. Seems nobody else is interested. Bad luck.
Anyway - You have mentioned "unforseen noises" - could you elaborate a bit on that. I would love to take a look on it and check whether I did something worng.
In the mean time - I have added a second beta to the attachments. I've added the the filter section including modulation options. Now you can use S&H or VCO1 to modulate the filter...
To get an impression what the original Synth is like, check out the two videos: and
Have fun!
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- KVRist
- 307 posts since 18 May, 2020
Oh yes. With the filters it becomes really powerful. I'm glad to see, you're not completely discouraged 
Tried to reproduce those unforeseen sounds mentioned before. Now all works fine, I guess it was an issue with my equip. Sorry for bothering you unnecessarily.
Thanks for the links, it's a pretty cool thing.
Now I am wondering, what is your approach, when recreating the Cat. Do you have a blueprint of the original or are you recreating it completely from scratch?
Viele Grüße
T.
Tried to reproduce those unforeseen sounds mentioned before. Now all works fine, I guess it was an issue with my equip. Sorry for bothering you unnecessarily.
Thanks for the links, it's a pretty cool thing.
Now I am wondering, what is your approach, when recreating the Cat. Do you have a blueprint of the original or are you recreating it completely from scratch?
Viele Grüße
T.
Last chance
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2483 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
I think I'm already to far into this to abandon it. It is extremely helpful to understand MSF better for me and it show some really quirky things. For instance I had to "invert" some modulators to work as expected, which was completely counterintuitive. And the "F1" help was not real help ... it required some trial and error to figure this out.Tyrs wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:43 am Oh yes. With the filters it becomes really powerful. I'm glad to see, you're not completely discouraged![]()
2nd thing - The 2 Pitch Modulators with 5 source already filled most of the modulator section...
Imagine rebuilding a synth little more complex would be really hard.
No, no, it's not bothering. I just want to reproduce it and in case it's a "bug" fix it. So if you come across sth. weird, please report them to me.Tyrs wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:43 am Tried to reproduce those unforeseen sounds mentioned before. Now all works fine, I guess it was an issue with my equip. Sorry for bothering you unnecessarily.
What I have figured out is that keyboard aftertouch produces some weird noises. If no aftertouch is sent everything is "stable". With aftertouch the sound becomes unstable.
Yep it is. Those behringer recreations, Model D, Poly D, Cat, K-2, Mono/Poly bring me close to triggering the "buy now" button. But thanksfully I can still control my GAS...
No, I don't have a blueprint of the original. I try to get how all is wired up from the yt videos about the original Cat or the behringer recreation. And the Cat is a good example of a classical analog signal path OSC, Filter , VCA. The Cat is not too simple example of this signal path and on the other hand not overly complex to figure out.Tyrs wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:43 am Now I am wondering, what is your approach, when recreating the Cat. Do you have a blueprint of the original or are you recreating it completely from scratch?
But again - My reproduction in MSF will never be able to sound truely analog or like 100% original Cat. All I can try is to rereate the signal path / structure to some extent.
For now I want to build the basic setup. Things still missing is the LFO controls, the ADSR, the AR and Oscilltor Sync.
After that I'm thinking about checking out the original Waveforms. Probably I will replace the MSF out-of-the-box waveforms with single cycle that are closer to the Original. Some of the yt videos show how the waveforms look like, it should be possible to come a little closer to them.
Viele Grüße
] Peter:H [
Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2483 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
And here's two simple classic analog sounding "bass" preset for the latest Version of my device (PHU Cat Synth 003). Please use with "lower" notes
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8ZjVSgIYO6QZvHfUDjwJcAo8C8AOPAlcCjwR2BHeCb4G5DTcEo5l-M+GiE09XM14VBqKut93e0KeF0xgARH-KXkWg9TEtFdKKjnNdfT1bHSSV2o4imykFB4jkT2NBGwqlgbX7vVBE6VNhdyqiW+y7julMcfXpKrnjVZC83dT4zUTPJ1BkQVVKtvHL4qZUkeOImzZNjotHmxyvnHPHkBtvxOB2U+PZmZNzu5Cyps5vnDTcWfqwmR5sNXvYbGTbrowovzKqW0oQRYMNj8-ACbtLDDUapsPlhRqxd0xpoWYMby9qRDkYEdLW1OgtmC9wQPPV37-5qg8wsqOl5W6RI0b708B6weQ8Whxw0c9B3XmYTX0ySOzc7aEZ4CfXe78O8PzaeXS5ien7r6436-KkseHS87BTUEN4muCX+z+H-TvOeHeCZ04Q0Pn82vEDbznH7LT9-oSxQE8cT7BEOPQW3C39WSRyROpJZ0RZh73ON2sWPJMfSKaWjJt4+JGKi-58DxNBRHIRFTrpXIwMd+nMwnP5fXYUvt87+R+2VcfV-
- KVRian
- 556 posts since 22 Jun, 2019
I had fun with your device.
Loved the retrogamy sound I got here :
I'd love to be able to adjust modulations more precisely
Thanks for sharing
Loved the retrogamy sound I got here :
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L3+ABSt-gUZS+waMo8oJHUeQFj6TIC+6kyAsWskpQLff1GlR5gewuac4Q-L8r84JHXuYFf7vKH3jkxSDw6CvS4NEXJcHfrlYF-gZVfvA3KPWCe675gWph7avYwqhazf47in7gAYp+4FHUlsCjqPeBR1FWAo+k6gjupLwFFnbeEIyn+M1UiE9BTae2Lg3kEXdftWqjYzQrzFe2MdR28lbwKD7YNf16lp4qlXXUJBUqHFag4hksaEtWNDBmf3IZQ0+K3SlnbnHguZY7w5XqgQpHrKCKcGiT1PfNdFRMi6iSrpVs3pdFQ7kmRab-jilv+WhT3jyFSqYaN21Y4j29HJLA9014r8+cgjOFtA11futUID0ACKi7cZSa6cK75gWbSbftUoiKS2HFcSKtUj+xwOGxGbkdJHoaCedweZ5G5B1TmqcZwe8XBaJC2RAyNtTjdzFcUD6g3erv327VhxLrAjMKt8gZo-1ZaD9jciAtDoX4x6DufMwcGyIndsT20Arxo+e-XYd4ce0+eMLUCoIXz593RdLZcOX72OVgiM4N-HL-17B-J5hvbvgkSBI6X1y7QeivFtgNSfv+NCaBIWJX15dd0ceh7z0Sk0MPHs+QS6j3l8It-cEkcn7qSWdMhwXpofdj4dIOlo71NrZe2Q9EULZ8t+fhE-lNZGr4hKmPHyiT6U-+MMbFIBcxupPOxdj0Vu48Org-YGflB72T-wMUcOAPThanks for sharing
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2483 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
Cool perset, thanks, ElVincente.ElVincente wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:15 am I had fun with your device.
Loved the retrogamy sound I got here :
I'd love to be able to adjust modulations more precisely
Thanks for sharing
And you are completely right. Control of LFO, ENV and AR are still missing. That is next on my list.
On the Todo list are:
- ADSR controls for attack, decay, sustian and release
- AR controls for attack and release
- LFO frequency and LFO delay
- Oscillator Sync
- Switching OSC1 on/off, i.e. use OSC 1 as modualtor only but not as output
- Detaching OSC1 from keyboard pitch, turning it into a second LFO basically
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- KVRian
- 556 posts since 22 Jun, 2019
Yeah nice! looking forward to it!
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
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- KVRist
- 307 posts since 18 May, 2020
I know, what you mean. I only recently started to build my own devices and I am still struggling with basic stuff. E.g. it's still a mystrery for me, how to to wire the single building blocks like your above mentioned GenCustomMod, to get an audible effect. Tried different ways, but I'm not getting any effect. Even when analysing most of the devices included in the MSF package, they rarley using any of the exotic modulators. Finally I mostly end up using the Merger, which at least works for me.] Peter:H [ wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:43 am It is extremely helpful to understand MSF better for me and it show some really quirky things. For instance I had to "invert" some modulators to work as expected, which was completely counterintuitive. And the "F1" help was not real help ... it required some trial and error to figure this out.
So I would just love Melda, Chandler or you to make a tutorial about the different modules and how to use them or at least how wire them. This I believe would also help the community to grow.
This was it] Peter:H [ wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:43 am What I have figured out is that keyboard aftertouch produces some weird noises. If no aftertouch is sent everything is "stable". With aftertouch the sound becomes unstable.
] Peter:H [ wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:43 am No, I don't have a blueprint of the original. I try to get how all is wired up from the yt videos about the original Cat or the behringer recreation.
Can't wait] Peter:H [ wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:43 am After that I'm thinking about checking out the original Waveforms. Probably I will replace the MSF out-of-the-box waveforms with single cycle that are closer to the Original. Some of the yt videos show how the waveforms look like, it should be possible to come a little closer to them.
Once your Cat is finished, are you planning to share also an editable version with the world e.g. on donationware-basis?
Last chance
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- KVRist
- 208 posts since 4 May, 2020
I agree - I would love a series of articles / tutorials about what each module does and good uses for it.
Would be a great overview for everyone and could be updated as new modules are added.
Would be a great overview for everyone and could be updated as new modules are added.
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- KVRAF
- 2000 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR
DITTO! Been needed from the start, IMO. But better late than never:)pizzatime wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:16 am I agree - I would love a series of articles / tutorials about what each module does and good uses for it.
Would be a great overview for everyone and could be updated as new modules are added.
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- KVRAF
- 2000 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR
Easy to get some really crazy s&*t from this thing, Peter!
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IbpvGwsLJob22f9Rka18+Ku4L-nJQIHji6BB48hA1ePIoJfjLgVfgLwD7g78A9gseGAQExdTcJ+WBgNbPZsdCAR05+905CgieBNgEngQACJ4EzgSeCAwJ7gXvAlM7bggGDn85ZIJ3qq4cXeaafLdbdX+jO8r2XljZe3OUFLwndvX1bPWKqmjexolQyHoHSfqFLmhLXZSIbdfZb2mqvmNbUTM32LUt3Rrh-PeypF7MgsTdrotfDrvpNRORk6U1u-nriqNYk-+N9XD+ZNfDc13tFJbDSwm429XwpOekciskbWjzu1kn3FOiVM4UdrpKWG5wq06FKD0VyjtaCArGG55ajNvDsk+pwTneqk8p8U5p0aecwLurCVEKLoSUDe1467h1jFClHj5UFVcPyTFSUqfIK0rVkWc8Y-I+W+wxwa9J3TrYL+PJ0Phv627pHp7YzlvPw7Oe9WgzQ911X2xnXGdJZ62F42Arg8PytYOf7v5uqbeM9mZ5U4bj0MdZz3I9ZzHDlkfaq8NABJ+Rf9Rr11nyMuPlT4tHZSWiO-PV+-HJj4cEPwhLF7o8HAYw1-+5sb7uOcZr4w985XhPbXfw0lZ712do8fjnk-0J9NzOD-PB-NnjW+rPe+7mz8em0RZ-vJj9-vfJrPVp+nn2nfuktZ7Qd+H6djgTnZY0fG5-B4O3P3-8Jbiff7riYsqdfTOd7y0oKNfYewTPwJqMn6a29E0lDr6UoOZLupJn-s-9RXPyvae2O81h8+b7pfry9LXX-6f3Mpmo7Z4wueLv1O51p9dRO9e3qH3z1L5+6bdV9bOrqtPaeYxf+BLkKP+m2rlo-qP+9XKjDmbqw8+R+tdF88fb29fhjTrtqJ2n6cs-KmH50ldbZ6rau67XV68+Djj777qN8+1ftNSL1qgldqbX9xN1Mp1+Vr32p9t7tT-lvxCOqqpe9amcsfa1oWM-6A+GmRD1+0Vz0ux0L-qd++a92rm4mdzbk3b-pfmXend-3eWF5uT+QlWv7ijLNJPauerMybt1qYlD+lsKfaZtuHNTf+vrr-6vjVAX+WqMvSn5tW467zFDBz9Sh6O-H+U7UUByHrB7Vzvva-bCGi9-D8L1f4LBbbz7Lxjz1OE=-
- KVRAF
- 2000 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR
Hope so, really cool:) I started making presets right away.Once your Cat is finished, are you planning to share also an editable version with the world e.g. on donationware-basis?
