Arm based Macs (platform support)

[david.beholder]

Urs I recall you've said if Macs would go ARM you would probably drop the support. Welcome to the world of ARM based Macs. Now is your statement standing still or you've changed your mind?

[Urs]

Which of those posts do you mean?

search.php?keywords=ARM&terms=all&autho ... mit=Search

Maybe this, from about a year ago:

Depends a bit on what's happening with operating systems and plug-in formats.

Hehehe, as in: If all goes well, everything will be fine. But if, for instance, Apple decides to throw ARM processors at us, or, another example, if Steinberg decides to require some sort of certification process for VST3 which for whatever reason we fail - maybe just because we have presets with variable size - then there's no gurantee that we'll have enough time to spend on Z3. This is how it's been quite often throughout the past 8 years.

I don't recall what you recall, about dropping support and stuff. Even my post from 2011 doesn't say anything about dropping support of anything.

[medienhexer]

Dropping support would seem very much out of character for Urs

[Urs]

Dropping support would seem very much out of character for Urs

I do have my moments though...

[evg]

Did anyone hear or read any expert opinions (not just speculations) yet about the performance aspect of ARM processors regarding software synthesizers? Will the coming Apple laptops or Mac Minis with ARM have similar performance with regard to softsynths, or much better, or worse than with Intel?

[pdxindy]

Did anyone hear or read any expert opinions (not just speculations) yet about the performance aspect of ARM processors regarding software synthesizers? Will the coming Apple laptops or Mac Minis with ARM have similar performance with regard to softsynths, or much better, or worse than with Intel?

I know nothing on the subject... my iPad Pro has pretty impressive performance. To me, the most important question is how much work will it be for developers to make the switch and then ongoing from there to maintain it?

[tony10000]

I have read that Intel CPUs will be used on the higher-end Mac notebooks and the Mac Pro for the foreseeable future. The ARM chips will initially be used on the Mac Mini, the MacBook Air, and the low-end MacBooks.

[david.beholder]

I don't recall what you recall, about dropping support and stuff. Even my post from 2011 doesn't say anything about dropping support of anything.

I know U-he has amazing product support record.

What I meant is not support of existing products, but support of platform (i.e. new development) because of new architecture gives issue with optimization/apple trying to push you into app store and take 30% cut

[david.beholder]

Did anyone hear or read any expert opinions (not just speculations) yet about the performance aspect of ARM processors regarding software synthesizers?

Software synths like any other High performance software need: high speeds, multiple alus/fpus, pipelining (parallel execution, predictive execution), L1/4 caches, fast context switch, cores. Historically all of above was in Pentium (except cores) and made x86 powerful. ARM as architecture was way simpler => less power consuming, easier to modify, have better licensing rules. And despite the fact ARMs are multicore and ghz today still they caches/cores/pipelines are not as effective i mean way more.
That's why Apple hasn't showed yesterday benchmarks how they (speaking like Steve Jobs) are ten thousand three hundred forty eight time faster and over seven thousand times better than Intel. Most of apple customers nowdays are using browser and couple casual/office apps. Because of that Apple doesn't want to pay Intel for high performance processors.

[pdxindy]

I have read that Intel CPUs will be used on the higher-end Mac notebooks and the Mac Pro for the foreseeable future. The ARM chips will initially be used on the Mac Mini, the MacBook Air, and the low-end MacBooks.

Apple said they would complete the transition to Arm processors across the Mac lineup within 2 years. That means no new Intel Macs made after 2 years.

Apple also said they would support existing Intel machines for "years to come".

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Which of those posts do you mean?

Hehehe, as in: If all goes well, everything will be fine. But if, for instance, Apple decides to throw ARM processors at us, or, another example, if Steinberg decides to require some sort of certification process for VST3 which for whatever reason we fail - maybe just because we have presets with variable size - then there's no gurantee that we'll have enough time to spend on Z3. This is how it's been quite often throughout the past 8 years.

Please for the love all that is right and holy in this world, if ARM support is going to be a major undertaking, let it wait until after Z3 is done!

[tony10000]

"Whether they do or not, there will again be a transition period before they eventually come over, and there will be a transition period as Apple switches over to ARM, though this time it is likely to be longer. It's unlikely that Tim Cook will be able, or want to, emulate Steve Jobs's announcement that all Macs would be using Intel processors within two years. He'll surely not be able to match how Apple actually made that move within 18 months.

"That's because Apple has just launched its highest-performance machine ever, the Mac Pro. It's going to take demand from that Pro market to make Apple switch even this machine over to ARM in the short to medium term." https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/02 ... sumers-get

[tony10000]

""The real challenge for Apple will be its high-end computers — the MacBook Pro, iMac Pro and Mac Pro," he said. "These run on high-performance CPUs like Intel Xeon chips, and it remains to be seen if Apple can come up with processors that can match the performance." https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/21/tech/app ... index.html

[pdxindy]

"Whether they do or not, there will again be a transition period before they eventually come over, and there will be a transition period as Apple switches over to ARM, though this time it is likely to be longer. It's unlikely that Tim Cook will be able, or want to, emulate Steve Jobs's announcement that all Macs would be using Intel processors within two years. He'll surely not be able to match how Apple actually made that move within 18 months.

That was exactly the statement Apple made yesterday. All Macs will be using Arm processors in 2 years.

[dayjob]

Which of those posts do you mean?

Hehehe, as in: If all goes well, everything will be fine. But if, for instance, Apple decides to throw ARM processors at us, or, another example, if Steinberg decides to require some sort of certification process for VST3 which for whatever reason we fail - maybe just because we have presets with variable size - then there's no gurantee that we'll have enough time to spend on Z3. This is how it's been quite often throughout the past 8 years.

Please for the love all that is right and holy in this world, if ARM support is going to be a major undertaking, let it wait until after Z3 is done!

i agree w/that sentiment. let rosetta2 handle the bridge year(s) and let Z3 emerge for us in the meantime.

but obviously u-he needs to do what is best for the company/product range. personally, i don't see an ARM mac in my life for many years.. i only just recently retired from 2011 macbook pro from audio work and bought a used 2018 machine.

let people on the bleeding edge wait.