The Waves Update Plan scam

[fuzzlightyear]

Of course it's a way to create money. It's just that it isn't a scam, and that you're free to update or not.

It can also be related to the fact that some people didn't read Wave's transfer policies and other worthwhile business practices before spontaneously purchasing something on SALE that they later realize they don't need.

And of course Waves is supposed to flip the bill when you decide to buy something during a SALE and then turn around and try to sell it. The SALES are meant to be so low priced that to sell or trade them wouldn't be cost efficient for their business model/policies. Which is clearly written on the Waves site, but it would take time to read it before making a purchase.

WUP was designed a long time ago to help keep big studios and other professionals covered under their protection and upgrade program. Waves has later implemented an UPGRADE path that most people don't seem to understand until it's too late.

[ramseysounds]

people mostly don't use their heads to think, and get outrageous when they didn't read stuff, and rant that they got scammed while they didn't.

Unfortunately we live in an age where too many people feel the need to be constantly offended.

[jochicago]

You don't have to upgrade, and Waves don't hide a single thing from you.

What? There is a no mention of a yearly fee anywhere through the buying path for Waves outlets, and only a small mention about getting WUP for free on the Waves website itself (with no mention about being locked out of selling the license, etc).

Tons of people buy these plugins without being aware that they will receive an email in a year telling them they now owe money or they will lose support on their purchase.

"bUt U DoN'T hAVe to PAy!"
Then you lose support, and your second device, and they trample your legal right to sell the license. It's not inconsequential to lose WUP, even if the plugin continues to run on one machine.

This is at least the definition of a hidden fee (not to mention other deceptive practices like trying to deny you the sale of your license). What is a "scam" to you?

Scam definition (Webster Dictionary): deceptive act or operation

I know no better word to describe Waves business model than the word "deceptive". Deceptive pricing, misleading marketing, hidden fees. A deceptive operation, the dictionary definition of the word "scam".

[ramseysounds]

You don't like Waves. We get it. Move on.

[imrae]

... spontaneously purchasing something on SALE that they later realize they don't need.

And of course Waves is supposed to flip the bill when you decide to buy something during a SALE and then turn around and try to sell it. The SALES are meant to be so low priced ...

When's the last time Waves wasn't running a SALE? Who here is buying Waves stuff that isn't on SALE? Waves's constant SALES are a misleading practice in their own right, presenting fantasy prices from which the products are supposedly discounted. Why emphasise this detail with CAPITAL LETTERS when it's a normal (and practically unavoidable) part of buying from Waves?

[chk071]

You don't have to upgrade, and Waves don't hide a single thing from you.

What? There is a no mention of a yearly fee anywhere through the buying path for Waves outlets, and only a small mention about getting WUP for free on the Waves website itself (with no mention about being locked out of selling the license, etc).

I really have no idea what "yearly fee" you are talking about. I own 6 Waves plugins, and never had to pay anything to use them.

I also don't know what you want to imply with that fancy hip writing:

"bUt U DoN'T hAVe to PAy!"

Actually, if anything, it seems to be hip to play the revolutionary, and blame companies about scams which are none.

[vurt]

You don't have to upgrade, and Waves don't hide a single thing from you.

What? There is a no mention of a yearly fee anywhere through the buying path for Waves outlets, and only a small mention about getting WUP for free on the Waves website itself (with no mention about being locked out of selling the license, etc).

I really have no idea what "yearly fee" you are talking about. I own 6 Waves plugins, and never had to pay anything to use them.

I also don't know what you want to imply with that fancy hip writing:

"bUt U DoN'T hAVe to PAy!"

Actually, if anything, it seems to be hip to play the revolutionary, and blame companies about scams which are none.

i think actually, you will find "its hip to be square"
its a song so it must be true. wouldnt be a song if it werent.

[jochicago]

You don't like Waves. We get it. Move on.

You are the one at a Waves scam thread trying to derail the discussion. How about you move on?

bUt U DoN'T hAVe to PAy!

I just explained it in the same comment you are quoting. I encourage you to make yourself a calming cup of tea, and try reading the explanation again.

[fuzzlightyear]

... spontaneously purchasing something on SALE that they later realize they don't need.

And of course Waves is supposed to flip the bill when you decide to buy something during a SALE and then turn around and try to sell it. The SALES are meant to be so low priced ...

When's the last time Waves wasn't running a SALE? Who here is buying Waves stuff that isn't on SALE? Waves's constant SALES are a misleading practice in their own right, presenting fantasy prices from which the products are supposedly discounted. Why emphasise this detail with CAPITAL LETTERS when it's a normal (and practically unavoidable) part of buying from Waves?

You are just too young to know their history and the products' lifespan, maybe it's up to you to do some homework, instead of expecting Waves to correct your mistakes later?

When you buy things on SALE, it's a given that the resale value won't be there, especially if you read their policies before purchasing.

[Fleer]

Whilst indeed I wouldn't use the word scam myself, there is something 'unusual'/'peculiar' about Waves, which indeed if it existed when I bought my first Waves plugin, I would not have done so.

1) Waves 9 existed for six years as the current version (2012-2018), during which time there were many OS changes on both Mac and PC, and compatibility updates like for the overwhelming majority of audio software developers were provided without additional cost.
Waves 10 came in 2018 and Waves 11 in 2019 with more or less no new features (meaning if you have no bundles, there was no across the board improvement in your plugins). I am not aware of any other plugin developer that charges you for an OS compatibility update without additional features etc.

2) Waves (along with e-licenser stuff, mcdsp) are one of the few developers who only offer one activation-at-a-time per license. Yes now you can get a second license, but that works only if your WUP is up to date, which seems now to be every one year. Meaning for people who have two machines like me, if they want to take advantage of this second license, purchasing WUP every year is a must.

3) Waves are also one of the few audio software developers who do not offer email/phone call support if your wup is not up to date for the product you are emailing/calling in about. So yes if you need to contact support, they say you first have to update your wup.

So yes indeed you won't have to update wup ever year, but if you don't you lose email/phone technical support, possibly lose OS compatibility especially if you are on the mac.

I would not do it again and I have stopped buying Waves plugins for these reasons.

It is clear to me from their constant $29 sales that the WUP is the 'catch' in this great deal and that is indeed their business model.

rsp

Good points. For these reasons I actually do consider their MO to be a scam, albeit a well documented one. When I got in under Waves 10, launched June 2018, I reckoned I’d get at least a year or five of quality use out of it, as Waves 9 lasted more than six years. But then they charged for Waves 11 (and Mac OS compatibility) not much more than a year later in October 2019. In the meantime, they nuked the resale value out of the blue, by retroactively imposing fees based on a fictional minimum. Those are the constitutive elements of a scam.

[waltercruz]

I was thinking about this in the latest days and I got an idea (that obviously no one will follow): WUP should be $29, for all plugins that you own. You pay $29 and WUP everything. This would make everyone pay without completely hate them, I think.

I'm not 100% against the waves model, but if they won't add new features to their software and will keep pushing us to pay every year to keep it working, it should be cheap. And knowing that their plugins probably won't work on my computer in 4 to 5 year, I'm not inclined to use them now.

[MadDogE134]

all my plugs still work from at least 6 yrs ago on that i have never updated WUP on so NO THEY DON'T MAKE YOU PAY EVERY YEAR TO KEEP THEM WORKING!!! lol the ONLY catch to the WUP is you can't bloody transfer/sell any that are not current in the update plan. they do NOT stop working.

but i will agree it bites the big one how much they want to charge for the WUP on each plug or bundle if you actually want to sell them. it is a percentage of the retail price if i am not mistaken. and seeing how i bought most of them for say $29 i am NOT gonna pay over that to update the WUP to sell them lol hence why i have so many out of WUP now. i would rather just keep them than waste more money on them just to get a little money back. no one is gonna pay say $100 for a $300 plugin they can get on sale for $29 lol so if you got them for $29 use the heck out of them... keep them and STFU about it. i would venture to say we all got MORE than $29 worth of use out of them. it is the same dance over and over. Waves ain't gonna change. i am sure some of you just got off the banana boat but it wasn't bloody yesterday. now grow up gents and gentiles. cheers

[ramseysounds]

....will keep pushing us to pay every year to keep it working....And knowing that their plugins probably won't work on my computer in 4 to 5 year, I'm not inclined to use them now.

Jesus f*cking christ. You DO NOT have to pay every year to keep them working. I have Waves plugs from 5/6 years ago; every one works flawless. Stop spreading such BS.

@jochicago - it’s not a scam, it’s a business model. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. It’s called choice.

This thread is full of self-entitled always offended people. Grow up. Out.

[imrae]

... spontaneously purchasing something on SALE that they later realize they don't need.

And of course Waves is supposed to flip the bill when you decide to buy something during a SALE and then turn around and try to sell it. The SALES are meant to be so low priced ...

When's the last time Waves wasn't running a SALE? Who here is buying Waves stuff that isn't on SALE? Waves's constant SALES are a misleading practice in their own right, presenting fantasy prices from which the products are supposedly discounted. Why emphasise this detail with CAPITAL LETTERS when it's a normal (and practically unavoidable) part of buying from Waves?

You are just too young to know their history and the products' lifespan, maybe it's up to you to do some homework, instead of expecting Waves to correct your mistakes later?

When you buy things on SALE, it's a given that the resale value won't be there, especially if you read their policies before purchasing.

Am I missing something? Or is this 'reply' to criticism literally:

• weird ad-hominem
• restate the original claim without variation

[sonicpowa]

8 years and still no WUP, everything works fine. Presume it would be very different on Macs, though.