Apple will switch to ARM processors: what does it mean for plugin developers?

[IncarnateX]

Well, ^^^ that is pretty much the dev-hazzle my first post was about, the cost-benefit of the Apple compatibility game. My suspecions are all confirmed here. I hear you if no one else.

[ericj23]

The EU is in the process of taking Apple to court over restrictive practices re the app store and the 30% fees. And the EU will win because the practice is clearly anti-competitive.

The case is about wanting to be able to list on the app store but allow users to pay for things somewhere else - this is specifically forbidden at the mo. But if allowed you have your free demo on the app store and a link to your site where users pay you for the full version.

So I am not sure the app store on everything is really that bad if the EU make them

[audiothing]

......

[audiothing]

For us, I don't think it's going to be a huge hassle.

We started dropping support for 32bit 2 years ago. So, Catalina forcing 64bit was actually a relief.
The notarization took no more than a few days of work, it's now fully automated in the build script.
Updating all current plugins took a bit more time (but it was something we needed to do anyway).
Paying €99/year (VAT included) for the developer program is actually cheaper than buying any standard or EV code-signing certificate for Windows. Sure, you don't really need to code-sign on Windows, but it's good practice and should be encouraged.

Regarding the move to ARM, I'm using JUCE, so I'm pretty sure most of the work will be done by the JUCE team.
I've already experimented with iOS in the past. The only problem I encountered was with SSE instructions for our FFT routines. Last week I spent just one afternoon moving everything to vDSP, and all my plugins compile for iOS without issues now (and are actually faster). I don't know if that's enough for macOS, we'll see.

One thing though, I'm quite happy we haven't released anything on iOS yet. I'm curious to see what will happen to prices between iOS/macOS plugins.

A few words on Windows. I regularly spend more time trying to fix issues on Windows than on macOS. The forced updates are incredibly annoying. The latest (I think) version 2004 introduced a lot of new issues. Some of my customers also experienced similar problems.

This is just my experience so far, and I'm pretty sure there are other devs with opposite experiences. To each their own.

So, is it worth developing for macOS? For us, and for now, yes. Over the past month, according to our google analytics, 56% of our unique visitors were coming from macOS and iOS devices combined. Mac users also spent 2.5x more than Windows users.

[SampleScience]

One thing though, I'm quite happy we haven't released anything on iOS yet. I'm curious to see what will happen to prices between iOS/macOS plugins.

This is an issue that has been discussed on Twitter a lot, we'll see what happen but personally I'm not optimistic because of the "disruption" mindset of silicon valley. I don't think they mind about the well being of small developers, they didn't mind making musicians much poorer during the 2000s. That being said, there's always the option to make your iOS apps not available for macOS. So at least you still have some level of control.

A few words on Windows. I regularly spend more time trying to fix issues on Windows than on macOS. The forced updates are incredibly annoying. The latest (I think) version 2004 introduced a lot of new issues. Some of my customers also experienced similar problems.

This is really interesting because in my case it's the opposite, I have 0 bug reports on Windows. But my plugins are simple sample players (the complexity is in the UI and sound design) that don't rely on much to work.

This is just my experience so far, and I'm pretty sure there are other devs with opposite experiences. To each their own.

In my case, the big problem is the size of my plugins, it breaks the notarization process all the time because to be notarize the plugin needs to be uploaded to Apple's server. My plugins are between 1 to 3 GB in size. I've tried contacting Apple about this via their dev support forms but got nothing out of it (I'm stuck in a loop where one tech support keeps referring to another tech support that refers me to the one that referred me to them).

So yes, depending on the dev's business model it will either work or not. Unfortunately for me, it won't unless Apple change their mind, which is unlikely to happen.

[quikquak]

In my case, the big problem is the size of my plugins, it breaks the notarization process all the time because to be notarize the plugin needs to be uploaded to Apple's server. My plugins are between 1 to 3 GB in size. I've tried contacting Apple about this via their dev support forms but got nothing out of it (I'm stuck in a loop where one tech support keeps referring to another tech support that refers me to the one that referred me to them).
So yes, depending on the dev's business model it will either work or not. Unfortunately for me, it won't unless Apple change their mind, which is unlikely to happen.

I wonder if Apple have an undisclosed limit to the App size?
What else do they want to control, like what colour shirt I have to wear on Wednesdays?

[pottering]

Apple is a lifestyle luxury brand, they may not want to control what colour shirt everybody wears, they DO want to control what kinda shirt the "cool people" wear (and pay big bucks for).

They even had a famous advertising series that mocked how certain people looked like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_brand
https://www.thebrandspecialist.com/appl ... -position/
https://adage.com/article/special-repor ... rand/97129
https://fabrikbrands.com/why-lifestyle- ... y-of-life/

EDIT: And of course, MS wants to be a lifestyle brand too, they just weren't able to (fortunately).

[paulm12]

The thing I'm worried about is this will cause poor performance on older plugins that are no longer in development. Sure its going to be recompiled, but we are already expecting a performance drop on "emulated" x86 apps? In other words, all the old plugins and stuff that developers are retiring (that we all love for their low CPU) may no longer have such an advantage, especially free stuff.

Yes, for free stuff I guess a lot of devs won't bother recompiling for ARM.
A lot of Mac freeware probably died already with the Catalina notarizing requirement requiring devs a payed Apple developer license.
I've only released one cross-platform freeware plugin so far but didn't bother to pay Apple just to keep it working.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually. I haven’t upgraded to Catalina and don’t plan to in the near future, not the least of which is to keep support for the Virus TI2.

I’m wondering what this will mean for cross platform developers too. It’s one thing to make Pc/Mac apps when they’re on top of the same architecture. Now, things may be trickier because you have different platforms. On the bright side, it probably will mean more support for iOS for popular AU/VSTs. But I’ve always found AUs to be inferior to VATs, at least for MIDI processing. Obviously the big guys like NI can do it, but what does it mean for your small/individual team making products like Lennar?

I’m not waiting in line to be the first adopter for any technology like this, especially after Apple’s big screwup with the T2 chip which made my $5000 i9 MacBook Pro unusable for DJing for 9 months. May be time to switch back to Windows after all...

[BONES]

That's also exactly what I said.

Mac users complain loudly as Windows users, but Apple is less responsive cuz its priority is the new shiny.

I think the difference is that Apple users complain after they have spent their money. They complain loudly but then buy a new MacBook anyway. OTOH, Windows users complain before they spend their money, which gives them more leverage.

[machinesworking]

That's also exactly what I said.

Mac users complain loudly as Windows users, but Apple is less responsive cuz its priority is the new shiny.

I think the difference is that Apple users complain after they have spent their money. They complain loudly but then buy a new MacBook anyway. OTOH, Windows users complain before they spend their money, which gives them more leverage.

Nonsense. Your choice means nothing about who you are as a person. Your opinions on this say more about your own psychological limitations than they do about end users of a product.

[grammar edit]

[BONES]

You cannot possibly be serious? Every choice you make speaks volumes as to what sort of person you are. I'd go so far as to say that who we are is the sum total of all the choices we make.

[kmonkey]

A few words on Windows. I regularly spend more time trying to fix issues on Windows than on macOS. The forced updates are incredibly annoying. The latest (I think) version 2004 introduced a lot of new issues. Some of my customers also experienced similar problems.

This is just my experience so far, and I'm pretty sure there are other devs with opposite experiences. To each their own.

Yeah it just speaks volume about your coding skills. This is not OS fight related (i couldn't care less about Mac vs Pc) - i have yet to see u-he, synapse or other top contenders fixing or releasing updates to their win builds on the "regular" basis. Even after forced updates you mentioned here (i hate them).

Meaning you are more likely doing something wrong. Note that i am not saying your products are inferior.

Regards

[binaryoblivion]

One thing though, I'm quite happy we haven't released anything on iOS yet. I'm curious to see what will happen to prices between iOS/macOS plugins.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. Developers have been devaluing their plugins by selling them at 1/10 the price on iOS, and now it seems like it could bite us all in the ass.

Obviously the worst case scenario is that macOS is flooded with cheap iOS audio plugins, triggering a "race to the bottom". But I think it's unlikely that developers will stand idly by and let their own iOS apps cannibalise their desktop products.

Some preferable possibilities:

1. iOS plugins stay the same price, but are sandboxed so that they only work on iOS (i.e. maintain the status quo).

2. As above, but customers have the option of buying a version that is unlocked for cross-platform use, and costs the same as the desktop version.

personally I'm not optimistic because of the "disruption" mindset of silicon valley. I don't think they mind about the well being of small developers, they didn't mind making musicians much poorer during the 2000s

Agreed. Recent actions show that Apple do not have developers best interests at heart, especially developers who don't "earn" Apple their 30% cut. Eventually I expect that iOS and macOS will merge, and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that when that happens Apple will start forcing audio plugins to be sold exclusively via the app store.

[audiothing]

In my case, the big problem is the size of my plugins, it breaks the notarization process all the time because to be notarize the plugin needs to be uploaded to Apple's server. My plugins are between 1 to 3 GB in size. I've tried contacting Apple about this via their dev support forms but got nothing out of it (I'm stuck in a loop where one tech support keeps referring to another tech support that refers me to the one that referred me to them).

You are using Maize, right? Have you tried moving the resources out of the plugins? No idea if that could work, but, yeah, uploading 1-3GB and then seeing the notarization fail is no fun indeed.

A few words on Windows. I regularly spend more time trying to fix issues on Windows than on macOS. The forced updates are incredibly annoying. The latest (I think) version 2004 introduced a lot of new issues. Some of my customers also experienced similar problems.

This is just my experience so far, and I'm pretty sure there are other devs with opposite experiences. To each their own.

Yeah it just speaks volume about your coding skills. This is not OS fight related (i couldn't care less about Mac vs Pc) - i have yet to see u-he, synapse or other top contenders fixing or releasing updates to their win builds on the "regular" basis. Even after forced updates you mentioned here (i hate them).

Meaning you are more likely doing something wrong. Note that i am not saying your products are inferior.

Regards

Thank you, but no, it's not (only?) about my coding skills. And, no, I didn't mean that we release updates for our Windows builds on a "regular" basis. We don't.

edit: to clarify, I'm talking about the build 2004 update. You can do a quick search and you'll see what I'm talking about.

As you said, I don't want to do yet another "OS fight". I was just reporting my experience, as a developer. And that is, I spend more time fixing Windows issues than dealing with Apple's new requirements. So far.

[machinesworking]

You cannot possibly be serious? Every choice you make speaks volumes as to what sort of person you are. I'd go so far as to say that who we are is the sum total of all the choices we make.

My choices in politics and religion say a lot about who I am.

My choices in architecture, cars, chairs, computers, candy, and outdoor sports are as superficial as it gets.

Next I expect you're going to claim as a Taurus, ENTP, and proud Australian, you're choice in DAW was obviously going to be Cubase.