Considering Waveform as my first DAW

[dynamo]

Thanks for sharing, GuitarPlayerinNYC.
You have a lot of good points, and I totally agree about working within your budget. It's sometimes hard to know what the budget is though: naturally you want to spend as little as possible, but at the same time want to make the most out of it. And like you say you don't know what you don't know. But that's the great thing about these forums -you can ask for other people's experiences before you go out and spend money based on your own guesswork (often resulting in expensive disappointments).

Great to hear that you've been able to configure your keyboard's knobs and sliders, but tell me: how does all that work: does one slider/knob/button do a single thing, or are they all assigned to different things in different windows (i.e. in a certain softsynth it controls the filter, while in a specific reverb it controls the reverb size, and in the main Waveform window it controls the channel 1 mixer output level)?
Or is one knob used to select which parameter/feature (anywhere) you want to move, then another slider/knob is used to actually change that parameter value? I really have no clue or experience with this and want to try to determine what kind of workflow I can expect with the use of such a keyboard.

For the time being I've been mostly preoccupied with upgrading my computer, and haven't done any serious work with Waveform, but at least I'm setting up the foundations for a good setup (plenty of disk space, fresh OS and app installations etc.). When done with all that I can finally start using it properly, probably just starting off with my DX-7 as a master keyboard and see what I miss/need as I go along (instead of buying some keyboard I'll later regret because it doesn't have what I need or has lots of things I can't make use of because of incompatibilites of general misunderstandings). Complicated business all this

[Peter Widdicombe]

A couple of ways to look at it. Do you like the feel generally of the DX-7 keyboard?

If so, then (temporarily...) consider one of the little 25-key units just for transport controls and portability. You can run both at the same time, if room can be accommodated. It's surprising how useful one of those CAN be, and while you figure out what you actually want, you can check out the functionality you feel you need without a big cash outlay. If you have a laptop, that allows you to test ideas away from the big keyboard. Make sure you get one with velocity, and USB-powered; but most do.

There are also some smaller inexpensive "controller only" for $100 or less.

[dynamo]

Good idea! And even better if I look for one in the second hand market.
Do the knobs/sliders all basically adhere to some sort of standard regardless of brand/model, or is there a specific standard which Waveform can make use its knobs/sliders/buttons?

I like my DX-7, but the keyboard action is a little noisy (mechanically) and its velocity only goes up to 100, so I don't see myself using it as a master keyboard in the long run.

[UnionS8]

You can choose any USB MIDI controller you want. Just make sure it's not too outdated because of the drivers for your operating system. But I'm on Win10 (2004) and my 10+ years old controller still works

[Watchful]

Good idea! And even better if I look for one in the second hand market.
Do the knobs/sliders all basically adhere to some sort of standard regardless of brand/model, or is there a specific standard which Waveform can make use its knobs/sliders/buttons?

Some will come with pre-mapped controls (obviously pitch bend and mod wheel, but some might have "volume" matched to CC7). Pretty much everything outside of bend and mod can typically be remapped by you as you need to.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

Thanks for sharing, GuitarPlayerinNYC.
You have a lot of good points, and I totally agree about working within your budget. It's sometimes hard to know what the budget is though: naturally you want to spend as little as possible, but at the same time want to make the most out of it. And like you say you don't know what you don't know. But that's the great thing about these forums -you can ask for other people's experiences before you go out and spend money based on your own guesswork (often resulting in expensive disappointments).

I can only tell you what helped me to decide on what to get regarding, let's call them accessories- midi controllers, etc. Guitar is my main intrument, and I've played for a few decades. Through the years, I've acquired (and still have most) over 15 guitars, 8 amps, 20-30 effects pedals, various interfaces to record the audio, and lots more. So I have a lot of physical things taking up a lot of room. Guitarists tend to want every new shiny object. Knowing this about myself, when it came to deciding on what to get for recording, I elected to go as minimalist as possible, especially with anything regarding external hardware.

So, I did my homework, and why I opted for a midi keyboard, with controllers, knowing there's external mixing boards, pads, etc. I had watched a ton of YT videos to see what the young recording artists used, and decided to get a multi-function midi device to avoid more clutter. Then I went down the rabbit hole of which multi-function midi device. For about $500 or so, there's a keyboard that's made for Ableton, and everything is mapped to it. But that meant learning a totally new DAW, and I had dabbled with Ableton a few years ago, and just hated it. So I started looking at the mini, 25 key midi keyboards mentioned- Akai, Novation, and other brands. That's where I learned many of these makers geared those devices to specific software, e.g. Kontact, Ableton, FL, etc. That's how I ended up with the Arturia, and learned they did the same; they make Analog Lab, and UVI plugins, which turned out to be a plus for me, as you get Analog Lab 4 and UVI synth software. I decided on the 49 key keyboard, because I knew I'd be bothered with having to hit the octave buttons, have fewer pads, sliders and knobs, so the 49 key was a happy medium in reigning in my impulses to get BIGGER AND BETTER. In the scheme of things, $200 wasn't a massive investment, given I've spent double and triple for a single guitar effects pedal.

You've mentioned you have some external synths, correct? I don't know if you intend to replace them with virtual synths, but my point is, this may play into your thinking. If you're used to a full sized keyboard, you may not want a 25 key midi keyboard. If you're on a budget, hesitant, or simply not sure, the 25 key midi KB may be for you.

Also, my goals for doing recording came into play. After years of playing to backing tracks, I wanted to write my own. Things pretty basic in the classic rock/blues/fusion genre, plus cinematic scoring type stuff. Things with orchestral instruments. Since I acquired all this gear, I've barely touched my guitars (in truth, I was hardly playing in the past 2 years. I was getting bored in playing the same old stuff, even while collaborating with people online).

Sorry, I'm blathering. I kind of just woke up. But yes, the people on this forum have been very helpful. I learn a lot from just reading thread.

Great to hear that you've been able to configure your keyboard's knobs and sliders, but tell me: how does all that work: does one slider/knob/button do a single thing, or are they all assigned to different things in different windows (i.e. in a certain softsynth it controls the filter, while in a specific reverb it controls the reverb size, and in the main Waveform window it controls the channel 1 mixer output level)?
Or is one knob used to select which parameter/feature (anywhere) you want to move, then another slider/knob is used to actually change that parameter value? I really have no clue or experience with this and want to try to determine what kind of workflow I can expect with the use of such a keyboard.

For now, I know I can control the master volume, panning, and individual volume on up to 8 tracks. The Arturia have various modes, and I haven't delved further. These controls work well for mixing, or while you're recording. You can look at the user manual on the Arturia site. I'm just happy to have the controls I have.

Regarding controlling plugins, I haven't even attempted it. When I see a soft synth, or any other plugin, the thought of mapping 20 knobs gives me a headache. But no, my midi KB doesn't automatically pickup on plugin controls. Someone more experienced will have to answer that. It's not a deal breaker for me, as I didn't even consider that until after I got the keyboard, and was resigned to having NO controls, until a forum member helped get going with controlling the DAW.

For the time being I've been mostly preoccupied with upgrading my computer, and haven't done any serious work with Waveform, but at least I'm setting up the foundations for a good setup (plenty of disk space, fresh OS and app installations etc.). When done with all that I can finally start using it properly, probably just starting off with my DX-7 as a master keyboard and see what I miss/need as I go along (instead of buying some keyboard I'll later regret because it doesn't have what I need or has lots of things I can't make use of because of incompatibilites of general misunderstandings). Complicated business all this

Sounds like you're in the same boat I'm in. In the 6 months, I've been playing with WF, in reality, I've probably dedicated no more than 2.5 months to it. As you likely know, NY became the epicenter of the virus, and things were...let's say pretty crazy.

I still have LOTS to learn about WF, AND the ton of plugins I have. This is really a whole new world for me. I learn things as I go along. I know some advanced stuff, like creating a multi-out drum kit, while not knowing very basic things, like how to get a window back in place, when I accidentally click a tab, and a module is just floating around. Plus, I have to learn the full capacity of many of the plugins I've bought (all on sale; I probably have over $3k worth of plugins, while spending less than $300, then there's LOTS of free plugins).

I don't know if this link will work, but it's literally the first "cinematic" thing I did. I had to learn how to sync to video using a free program called HitFilm. I was a fan of the show, and literally was watching that scene, and reimagined the music. So I wrote the music first, then happened on to that scene on YT, stripped the original sound out, and shoe-horned what I wrote in. Anyway, my recording goals have changed. I'm not writing backing tracks. I'm doing ambient type stuff, and playing with orchestral instruments. Oh, WF has video capabilities, but I haven't played with that at all. I'm getting too scattered. Definitely suffering from "virus fatigue," as many are.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11g9zZg ... sp=sharing

[fde101]

Another option to consider is to get a small MIDI controller with only the controls - not a keyboard in and of itself - which can sit on top of a keyboard you already have. Use the existing keyboard as a keyboard, and the controller for the DAW.

The Korg nanoKONTROL 2 is popular with a lot of MainStage users who use them for that purpose in a live setting, for example. If using MainStage, it would be possible to carry a MacBook with all of your sounds, plus an interface and the nanoKONTROL, and simply leverage whatever keyboard the venue has to offer, using the nanoKONTROL to trigger the changes to MainStage.

There is no reason you couldn't use a similar setup with Waveform for studio work.

There are quite a few other controllers out there which could be substituted and offer a different mix of control types and arrangements depending on what you are looking for.

[dynamo]

Great to hear that you've been able to configure your keyboard's knobs and sliders, but tell me: how does all that work: does one slider/knob/button do a single thing, or are they all assigned to different things in different windows?

For now, I know I can control the master volume, panning, and individual volume on up to 8 tracks. The Arturia have various modes, and I haven't delved further. These controls work well for mixing, or while you're recording. You can look at the user manual on the Arturia site. I'm just happy to have the controls I have.

I'm sure this makes it easier to do quick adjustments when mixing, sort of like having a (very small) mixing board in front of you.
Good idea to download the user manual!

Regarding controlling plugins, I haven't even attempted it. When I see a soft synth, or any other plugin, the thought of mapping 20 knobs gives me a headache. But no, my midi KB doesn't automatically pickup on plugin controls. Someone more experienced will have to answer that. It's not a deal breaker for me, as I didn't even consider that until after I got the keyboard, and was resigned to having NO controls, until a forum member helped get going with controlling the DAW.

How do the controls (knobs/sliders/buttons) work when you open a different plugin? Does a specific control do more or less the same type of thing in similar type plugins (i.e. filter cutoff if you're using synth plugins, or output level when using an effect plugin)? Or is this different for each plugin (meaning you have to spend some time turning knobs etc. just to see what they do, every time you switch over to a different plugin)?

Cool music by the way!

[dynamo]

Another option to consider is to get a small MIDI controller with only the controls - not a keyboard in and of itself - which can sit on top of a keyboard you already have. Use the existing keyboard as a keyboard, and the controller for the DAW.

Yes, that's something to consider. Thanks for opening my eyes to what's out there. I'm still 30 hears behind and keep thinking for solutions inside the box (well, inside the box with outside the box gear). Haha!! And I see those controllers (Like the Korn Nanokontrol you suggested) are very cheap as well, and might be a good way to try all of this new (to me) technology out before investing any further.
Another thought is that a small keyboard controller to fit my desk would make it so much easier to spontaneously make music because my keyboards aren't in a sitting position next to the desk. I really have to plan out an ergonomical/practical setup with the space limitations in mind.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I'm sure this makes it easier to do quick adjustments when mixing, sort of like having a (very small) mixing board in front of you.
Good idea to download the user manual!

Yes, and that was my goal, given what I knew about this stuff, when searching for a combination keyboard/mixing device. I can make adjustments to panning/track & master volumes while recording as well.

With the Arturia, and I imagine other makers, there's a variant of a "midi control center" where you can make adjustments, save presest and banks etc. I can access the manual via this control center that's about 30 pages. I'm happy to be able to get into "DAW mode" for now. It was pretty daunting to get up and running, with the help of Arturia's tech support, which took over a week, but that's another story.

How do the controls (knobs/sliders/buttons) work when you open a different plugin? Does a specific control do more or less the same type of thing in similar type plugins (i.e. filter cutoff if you're using synth plugins, or output level when using an effect plugin)?

Or is this different for each plugin (meaning you have to spend some time turning knobs etc. just to see what they do, every time you switch over to a different plugin)?

Depends on the plugin. Arturia makes Analog Lab, so the keyboard parameters are already mapped to various functions, but I have to remember to put the keyboard into the mode that controls the plugin, and not the DAW.

With percussion plugins, the pads seem to be an automatic input option, without having to do anything special. The pads work with some synths to hold down a chord. Some plugins have a "midi learn" option, and I'm able to map certain things.

In my experience, it depends on the plugin. plugin control wasn't even on my radar, until I started recording. Take a synth like Pigments 2, made by Arturia: https://www.pluginboutique.com/products ... gJoz_D_BwE There's probably over a hundred parameters to control. I can't see hardware control over everything, and even if it's possible, that isn't on my priority list. Learning how the damn thing works is more important (I'm on the last day of the demo).

Overall, the Arturia meets my needs. Not thinking about plugin control is an example of "you don't know what you don't know." But, even now knowing this is a consideration, it's still not that important. I've watched hundreds of YT videos, and have never seen anyone demonstrate a synth like Pigments using a controller. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but my priorities are learning Waveform, and learning the HUNDREDS of plugins I have, while keeping room consideration in mind. No matter what, I'll be buying a workstation, but I'm holding off a bit until I learn more. I don't even have monitor speakers yet.

I doubt I've helped you very much, other than explaining my thought processes on this journey. I went from the analog guitar world, and the tons of hardware that can be involved, to digital, and my goal was to minimize external stuff.

I did have a bit of a plan with my choice of input device: DAW control, pads, and transport controls, and NOT something geared towards live performance. And, budget. I was THISCLOSE to getting an Ableton geared keyboard, but common sense took over- I'd have to learn Ableton, which I've come to despise haha. I'm happy with Waveform, but won't pretend that I know it well. I think they're innovative, and responsive to user requests, and as you likely know, the cost for a full blown working Waveform is a fraction of what the "big boys" do.

Sure, there's other DAWs that have their fans- Reaper comes to mind. There's fans of Bitwig. I've demoed them, but have always come back to Traction/Waveform. You may feel differently in the end, which is fine. In a few years, I may change my mind. You have external synths, if I recall. I really don't know how well they'll integrate with WF, but from reading threads, they seem to.

Do you have the free version? Have you tested it out with your hardware?

Last thing, while I may be singing the praises of Arturia, this doesn't suggest that other manufacturers aren't as good, or possibly better. During my research, I discovered that many manufacturers geared their midi devices to either a specific DAW, or specific plugins. Arturia seemed to be fairly generic (then I learned they make Analog Lab, and plugins under the Arturia name). It serves my needs, and that's the important thing. Weird thing is (in a good way), due to my lack of understanding, and not being a natural keyboard player, I'm not creating music I normally listen to, which was rock/blues/fusion that was guitar oriented. But that's ok, I'm open to learning new stuff, and have a broad interest in music genres overall. I'm not a young guy either. I'm a middle aged guy that wants to learn new stuff, whatever goals I initially had, is changing slightly. Sorry for the blather. I tend to come and go, when responding, lol.

[dynamo]

No blathering noticed as I find yours and others' replies here very useful and eye-opening as I'm still very much a newbie to this.

I did try out with the free version first, while posting a lot of questions here, and once I found it to more or less do what I wanted I purchased the "Pro" basic version (at 40 or 50% off as far as I remember). My computer's starting to get back together again, with a larger hard drive, upgraded processor and new operating system, so I'm slowly getting back to where I can put some serious learning into this. I realize I do need a keyboard of some sort within handy reach, so I either need to rethink the layout of my setup (which I need to anyway -too much gear in too little space) and/or get hold of an additional USB keyboard (even a small one will do) which I can have right next to my computer keyboard/mouse so I don't have to stand up and leap over to my main keyboard all the time. Little practicalities like that I imagine can kill or boost musical inspiration.
Come to think of it: a small USB keyboard controller might even double as a portable keyboard (I have a laptop which could be used for music making on go). I'm not sure about mini keys though, so I'll have to check that out in a music store or go with standard, but less octaves in that case.

Your Arturia keyboard seems to be a nice choice! I'll take a closer look at it and its specs.

Another thing I realize is that although I'm starting to understanding how the basics of Waveform 11 actually works (tracks, recording, effects etc) I still have a long way to go and see how useful it is to play around with Apple's Garageband as well. That way I'll be getting a general understanding of DAWs without completely losing interest in the whole thing. Garageband is quite intuitive and fun to use, but is also limiting in the sense that it won't sync to external MIDI, so it'll all "in the box" or for external synths it's just the audio. So that's why I went looking elsewhere for a better suited DAW, ending up with Waveform.