KVR Audio

PAK · Post by **PAK** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:02 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:34 pm Why are they doing these models in a new plugin for synths they already have as plugins?

Because they're replicating their Zen Core hardware platform in software.

In theory the Zen Core versions should have lower CPU usage, as well as a more modern interface with which to edit them. Once Zenology Pro is done it will unleash further features. How much difference that makes depends on what they do, but there's a potential for a bigger difference particularly with the more complex plugins, like the XV5080 and the D50 (should they ever get around to the D50.. )

It remains to be seen if it's the end of the line, in terms of them doing the standalone plugins. Indicators to look for will be things like whether they bother to do a dedicated JX8P plugin, and especially whether they bother to port the dedicated plugins to Apple's ARM computers, or if just the Zenology stuff makes the transition over.

dumbledog · Post by **dumbledog** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:42 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:13 pm Just gave the JX-8P a go. Sounds pretty good. But HOLY STEPPY FILTER! Seriously...ouch. Assign a MIDI CC to the cutoff. Sounds like there's no smoothing happening at all. I haven't heard anything this bad since the early days of VSTi's with MIDI Learn.

Holy crap, you're not kidding. Sounds like it's quantized to semitones. (Edit: I think this is something up with Logic actually, automation is weirdly steppy. Gotta figure that out sometime.)

But it's hard to tell for sure because the filter doesn't seem to self-oscillate, so I have to test it with a noise source or something up. Did the OG 8P not self-oscillate? The 3P emulation does.

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:48 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:13 pm Just gave the JX-8P a go. Sounds pretty good. But HOLY STEPPY FILTER! Seriously...ouch. Assign a MIDI CC to the cutoff. Sounds like there's no smoothing happening at all. I haven't heard anything this bad since the early days of VSTi's with MIDI Learn.

Yeah, the stepping is really horrible when controlling it with MIDI. Not sure what the issue is there. It sounds smooth when I drag the control with my mouse.

Did you notice the envelopes retrigger when you change certain parameters while holding down notes? This happens with all of the buttons in the osc sections, and the filter type (R/M/S). Condition and pitch drift changes have no effect on currently held notes, and don't make any difference until the next time you play a key. Surely the real JX-8P doesn't restart the envelopes when you change the oscillator waveform or cross mod settings? This gives me the impression it's just a smoke-and-mirrors simulation, not a bunch of modeled components interacting in real time. It does sound pretty decent though, so maybe that doesn't matter too much (though I did have to add +6 dB gain, as all of the presets are too quiet and it gets tedious dragging the level to max every time you switch presets).

Angle Loss · Post by **Angle Loss** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:28 am

This is NOT a circuit/component modeled ACB/Legendary Series version of the JX-8P, it IS the cut down ABM/Zen model and does not so accurately emulate the vintage synths.

The ACB and DCB (analog or digital circuit behavior) versions sounds much better and are some of my favorite synth plugins, but they haven't released one for about a year and half.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:16 am

Update: Roland Cloud did confirm the steppiness and appear to be treating it like a bug so that's good news.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:37 am

Still unable to Update Roland Cloud or Zenology Lite with the Roland Cloud Manager (RCM).

If I try to download RCM manually, it's still at the previous 2.5.3 version. Have tried three different browsers.

RCM download link still currently connected to v253 instead of v254:

https://www.roland.com/download_roland_cloud_manager/

Still unable to contact Support via their website.

Does anybody have an email address I could use to get in touch with the relevant Support staff? The form on the Roland website is not working for me.

Thanks ...

JamminFool · Post by **JamminFool** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:15 am

try this:
support@rolandcloud.freshdesk.com

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:05 am

Angle Loss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:28 am This is NOT a circuit/component modeled ACB/Legendary Series version of the JX-8P, it IS the cut down ABM/Zen model and does not so accurately emulate the vintage synths.

The ACB and DCB (analog or digital circuit behavior) versions sounds much better and are some of my favorite synth plugins, but they haven't released one for about a year and half.

Yeah, that's my point. I'm a big fan of ACB. I have the System-8, SH-01A, TB-03, TR-08, and TR-09, and I use the SH-2, ProMars, and System-100 plugins via Roland Cloud.

This is the first chance I've had to try one of the new ABM models, and while it sounds pretty decent, I can see the seams in the simulation and it kinda breaks the illusion. I understand their goal was to reduce CPU/DSP usage to achieve much higher polyphony (32 voices instead of 8, when using the analog models), but I'm a bit surprised to hear it doing something as obvious as restarting the envelopes when changing oscillator or filter parameters, as if certain parts of the model are frozen and it has to reboot the whole simulation when you change them. Maybe it's just a bug in the software version?

But the really shocking thing is I just noticed the JX-8P model in Zenology actually uses more CPU than the ACB plugins. What?! I just tested the JX-8P vs. the Jupiter-8 plugin, and the JX-8P uses quite a bit more CPU. The difference is when they're idle, the JX-8P seems to use almost no CPU, while the Jupiter-8 is constantly chewing up a fair amount…but doesn't increase much when playing notes. While testing each one, I froze the other track (in Ableton Live) to ensure it's not influencing the result. Perhaps the software JX-8P (the version for general CPUs) is just poorly optimized and will improve over time, but this isn't a great start for these supposedly "lightweight" models. The emulations are worse and they use more CPU (except when idle).

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:22 am

JamminFool wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:15 am try this:
support@rolandcloud.freshdesk.com

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:52 am

Arashi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:05 am I'm a bit surprised to hear it doing something as obvious as restarting the envelopes when changing oscillator or filter parameters, as if certain parts of the model are frozen and it has to reboot the whole simulation when you change them. Maybe it's just a bug in the software version?

But the really shocking thing is I just noticed the JX-8P model in Zenology actually uses more CPU than the ACB plugins.

Best action is to report these bugs. They have just been released so it's pretty common that there are still bugs to be crushed.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:07 am

JamminFool wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:15 am try this:
support@rolandcloud.freshdesk.com

I put my report in an email and sent it.

Ticket Received

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:09 am

sadly their cloud service has a lot of stability/offline issues

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:10 am

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:51 pm

Aloysius wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:22 am
JamminFool wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:15 am try this:
support@rolandcloud.freshdesk.com

I wrote to this address and received a reply to my question about the XV-5080 plugin:
support@rolandus.zendesk.com>

abi · Post by **abi** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Caine123 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:09 am sadly their cloud service has a lot of stability/offline issues

I have zero issues connecting and downloading.

Roland Cloud - big change