Anybody Switch To Bitwig Studio From Cubase?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
SLiC
KVRAF
5313 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:13 am

Sort of makes sense to include Bitwig as the interface has DC coupled outputs so you can drive CV - Modular and Analog etc.
Great Deal!
Win 10 PC+ Surface with an X32 Desk, BWS, Live and Studio One, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

dellboy
KVRian
1285 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:25 am

Great deal !

Best prices I could find.

Antelope Audio Discrete 8 Synergy Core Audio Interface £1,079.00

Free } Edge Solo-Modeling-Microphone £415

Free } Bitwig Studio Full (download) £249

So you get a high end audio interface for £415

monkeymanx
KVRian
736 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:39 am

I ended up doing a make a offer on reverb.com and got mine for $1320 USD but had to pay taxes so it came up to $1400 USD. So it's about the same price as that above. And yea, pretty good deal. The only thing missing from this interface is midi inputs which I would have liked to have going through thunderbolt but USB midi is fine for the most part. Mainly my Pearl Mimic Pro e drum module uses MIDI for my connection to the computer. I purchased a Roland UM-One MK2 though which is supposed to be reliable.

I have listed my Bitwig license in the for sale forum if anybody is interested.

WasteLand
KVRian
892 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:57 am

cnt wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:57 am
Yes!
I Love Bitwig (still learning) but I know Cubase inside out after 20 years of using it.
Cubase will stay for some time for recording live instruments but for creating new electronic based music..
Bitwig is an instrument!
Cubase will never be that..
in my hands cubase becomes an instrument. it is how you work... what i learned in ableton and maschine, indirectly i use in cubase. but for sounddesign it can be done in cubase. yes depending on a lot of third party plugins, have nice arsenal for it. but it is nice to do it in cubase. it works differently. the approach, or how i now work in cubase (and i work for every song differently), it is an instrument for me. maybe a strange instrument...

of course this is not for everyone. bitwig is an instrument, yes, ableton, yes, maschine, yes, cubase, yes. in my case.

so not for a debate. but it can be used for extreme sounddesign, yes it has its limitations, but i don't notice them. one of the biggest projects i made was in ableton and cubase, both with extreme sounddesign. with extreme i mean, a lot of making own presets for effects, sends, inserts, tweaking tweaking. i make also of course the presets of the synths. a lot of effects i have, have modulation possibilities. and those that haven't them...

also automation is a way... to make great sounds from one preset only, no effects.

so many ways to make a song, or a sound...
win 10 pro; cubase 10.5 pro, live 10 suite+push 2, reaper, reason 11 suite, bitwig studio 3, maschine mk3+jam, arturia V collection 7, korg collection, komplete 11 ultimate, softube modular, VM, meldaproduction etc.
https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

dellboy
KVRian
1285 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:32 am

I have just fired up Cubase 10.5 and I still get that feeling that I had when I used to fire up Cubase for the Atari back in 1990.

An Atari 1024 with the 2 megabyte upgrade ( or did I have 4 megabytes - hmmm) and the 20 megabyte hard disk would start whirring and the little bee appeared on the hi - rez black and white monitor.

Power up the Roland Juno 106 - Korg M1 - Boss drum machine.

Can I go back in time please ?

Ahhhhhh :)
Last edited by dellboy on Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

dellboy
KVRian
1285 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 am

delete

SLiC
KVRAF
5313 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:44 am

dellboy wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:32 am
I have just fired up Cubase 10.5 and I still get that feeling that I had when I used to fire up Cubase for the Atari back in 1990.

An Atari 1024 with the 2 megabyte upgrade ( or did I have 4 megabytes - hmmm) and the 20 megabyte hard disk would start whirring and the little bee appeared on the hi - rez black and white monitor.

Power up the Roland Juno 106 - Korg M1 - Boss drum machine.

Can I go back in time please ?

Ahhhhhh :)
Ahhh, but the Atari Cubase was midi only, I jumped on board when when Cubase 'VST' came out I was still recording audio on a Fostek X26 4 track tape....recording to a computer hard drive...digitally editing, virtual instruments and there has never been a game changer like that since.

No regrets switching to S1 though (I still have my Cubase 10 licence), after all, it was a lot of the original Cubase team that left and did Studio One (just like Bitwig was ex- Ableton guys) so in some ways it's just a fork in the road :-)
Win 10 PC+ Surface with an X32 Desk, BWS, Live and Studio One, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

dellboy
KVRian
1285 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:20 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:44 am


Ahhh, but the Atari Cubase was midi only, I jumped on board when when Cubase 'VST' came out I was still recording audio on a Fostek X26 4 track tape....recording to a computer hard drive...digitally editing, virtual instruments and there has never been a game changer like that since.

No regrets switching to S1 though (I still have my Cubase 10 licence), after all, it was a lot of the original Cubase team that left and did Studio One (just like Bitwig was ex- Ableton guys) so in some ways it's just a fork in the road :-)
Bah - I have a Studio One Pro 4.5 license but rarely use it.

And what you have is not the point of life. Its how you appreciate what you have.

Back then its what we had and we got the same excitement (if not more, the technology was new and exciting) that you are getting today.

I was at the London Music Show in 1993 when Steinberg were using the Atari Falcon 030 to make audio. It was exciting !

The buzz is still the same.

And you missed the fun of trying to sync audio and midi and patch bays and hardware and sysex and all that stuff ! :hihi:

*edit: oops ! I missed where you said you did the fostex stuff.

Ah well, no pleasing some folk. :ud:

monkeymanx
KVRian
736 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:40 am

I started on some old version of Cakewalk back in the late 90's. I think I had a mixer running into an Echo Layla card. Then I found Fruity Loops for making beats and stuff like that which replaced my Boss DR-5. A guy I was working on a project also introduced me to Making Waves but I like FL better at the time. Before any of that stuff though I had a Tascam 4 track and later upgraded to a Korg D8 before I started using the computer for recording. It was awesome bouncing tracks with no sound quality loss.

Passing Bye
KVRAF
1646 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:30 am

monkeymanx wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:43 am
And from what I’m getting Bitwig for live audio sounds like an after thought. I will think in it a bit. It may actually be useful for hip hop though which I record once and awhile. But again mostly hard rock and metal.
Cubase is good fit for hip hop (or any) production if you know how to use it very well, I know quite a few people that use it for that cause, you aren't going to gain much with Bitwig.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore Bitwig and I ditched Logic/Cubase in favor of it, it wasn't over night and my particular workflow could be sacrificed in some areas for the gains I was getting with Bitwig, I was pretty advanced Logic user tho, so it's not like I was restricted in some ways, just found Bitwig so much more straightforward in doing most basic tasks and getting things going the way I personally work, but I'm not recording much these days and I could live with some workarounds.

cnt
KVRist
384 posts since 9 Mar, 2001

Post Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:31 pm

WasteLand wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:57 am
cnt wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:57 am
Yes!
I Love Bitwig (still learning) but I know Cubase inside out after 20 years of using it.
Cubase will stay for some time for recording live instruments but for creating new electronic based music..
Bitwig is an instrument!
Cubase will never be that..
in my hands cubase becomes an instrument. it is how you work... what i learned in ableton and maschine, indirectly i use in cubase. but for sounddesign it can be done in cubase. yes depending on a lot of third party plugins, have nice arsenal for it. but it is nice to do it in cubase. it works differently. the approach, or how i now work in cubase (and i work for every song differently), it is an instrument for me. maybe a strange instrument...

of course this is not for everyone. bitwig is an instrument, yes, ableton, yes, maschine, yes, cubase, yes. in my case.

so not for a debate. but it can be used for extreme sounddesign, yes it has its limitations, but i don't notice them. one of the biggest projects i made was in ableton and cubase, both with extreme sounddesign. with extreme i mean, a lot of making own presets for effects, sends, inserts, tweaking tweaking. i make also of course the presets of the synths. a lot of effects i have, have modulation possibilities. and those that haven't them...

also automation is a way... to make great sounds from one preset only, no effects.

so many ways to make a song, or a sound...
Did you ever try Bitwig or let someone how knows it well show you what it can really do?
I really recommend it. I understand if some people just doesn't need it, but they should at least see what it can do.

Cubase is not a playable instrument. You can produce in it for sure, I've done it for 20 years.
But Cubase is not NOT playable or built for live production. You have to automate yourself by using the mouse etc or have one parameter for one physical knob - where you can't even set min or max values for the parameters.
There are many things that are impossible to do in Cubase. Like sending envelopes, LFO's, arp's whatever (Bitwig has a vast number of "controller" plugins) - to any plugins parameters. The chaining possibilities in Bitwig is something Cubase can only dream of. And the biggest thing about Bitwig, for me: controller macros (!!). Just hookup your midicontrollers (I have 4 of them right now incl clip launchers) and start adding controller macros. Let an LFO control another LFO or an arp or anything you can think of. Control endless of plugin parameters with ONE knob, making it perfect to find sweet spots. This is what I call an instrument. When you have a nice setup you don't even have to look at the screen or touch your mouse, when you record your music.
Cubase does not have anything of this that can be remotely compared. I'm not trying to debate, it's just that as a long time Cubase I know what can be done in Cubase and not...

WasteLand
KVRian
892 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:58 pm

cnt wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:31 pm
WasteLand wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:57 am
cnt wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:57 am
Yes!
I Love Bitwig (still learning) but I know Cubase inside out after 20 years of using it.
Cubase will stay for some time for recording live instruments but for creating new electronic based music..
Bitwig is an instrument!
Cubase will never be that..
in my hands cubase becomes an instrument. it is how you work... what i learned in ableton and maschine, indirectly i use in cubase. but for sounddesign it can be done in cubase. yes depending on a lot of third party plugins, have nice arsenal for it. but it is nice to do it in cubase. it works differently. the approach, or how i now work in cubase (and i work for every song differently), it is an instrument for me. maybe a strange instrument...

of course this is not for everyone. bitwig is an instrument, yes, ableton, yes, maschine, yes, cubase, yes. in my case.

so not for a debate. but it can be used for extreme sounddesign, yes it has its limitations, but i don't notice them. one of the biggest projects i made was in ableton and cubase, both with extreme sounddesign. with extreme i mean, a lot of making own presets for effects, sends, inserts, tweaking tweaking. i make also of course the presets of the synths. a lot of effects i have, have modulation possibilities. and those that haven't them...

also automation is a way... to make great sounds from one preset only, no effects.

so many ways to make a song, or a sound...
Did you ever try Bitwig or let someone how knows it well show you what it can really do?
I really recommend it. I understand if some people just doesn't need it, but they should at least see what it can do.

Cubase is not a playable instrument. You can produce in it for sure, I've done it for 20 years.
But Cubase is not NOT playable or built for live production. You have to automate yourself by using the mouse etc or have one parameter for one physical knob - where you can't even set min or max values for the parameters.
There are many things that are impossible to do in Cubase. Like sending envelopes, LFO's, arp's whatever (Bitwig has a vast number of "controller" plugins) - to any plugins parameters. The chaining possibilities in Bitwig is something Cubase can only dream of. And the biggest thing about Bitwig, for me: controller macros (!!). Just hookup your midicontrollers (I have 4 of them right now incl clip launchers) and start adding controller macros. Let an LFO control another LFO or an arp or anything you can think of. Control endless of plugin parameters with ONE knob, making it perfect to find sweet spots. This is what I call an instrument. When you have a nice setup you don't even have to look at the screen or touch your mouse, when you record your music.
Cubase does not have anything of this that can be remotely compared. I'm not trying to debate, it's just that as a long time Cubase I know what can be done in Cubase and not...
hi cnt, i can react the KVR way, or my way:

you are very enthousiatic about biwtig, that is great, it means you have DAW that suits, you like work in and inspires you.

and i see enthousiasm not as debate, as an enchange of thoughts.

i own now bitwig studio 3.2.3 (thanks to bitwig... why thanks to bitwig? ..) now, since a bit more than a week. i can "judge" yet what it will mean to me, personal, for my music.
i have a lot of soft-modulars, semi-modalar (or almost modular...) effects. and synths which tend to have a lot of modulation routings/possibilities.

cubase is not a playable instrument. you mean for live purposes. in my case live stuff, i can make a live setup, my live playing, it is has many reasons i don't do. (in earlier days, i performed, i was a performer, i.e. singer in a not that unknown band, but also not a big name. i sometimes that.)

you mention controllers (i have the Obsessive Tactile Controller Syndrome....), i have the mackie MCU (2003 version), great controller for cubase, deep integration. a panaroma p1 and a zero sl 25 mkii + sl 49 mkii (and that is only a part of what i have). so programming synths i do via controllers (via cubase for instance), tactile control, more focused for me. automation i als do via controllers.
but it is not only the use of controllers, events, color them, it is easy in cubase to arrange to your needs. the midi editor is great. but the timeline, i am very used to it, makes it easy for my.
adding synths, adding effects, via sends or inserts, adjust adapt sounds to "blend" with eachother.
i like it.

yes cubase lacks modulation, lacks multiple routing for effects.

the chaining, yes i know it from ableton, is great indeed. do i miss it in cubase; no.

controller macro's, i think cubase as a great system for it, i don't use macro's, maybe perhaps, i don't use templates for instance, yes a very basic template, sample rate/bit depth, the UI, etc.
i use the MCU possibilities to pop up what i want.
perhaps indeed, more in depth macro's cubase does not support, i don't know. it is not what i need. but sometimes, i must learn some short cuts..

if you something like, control with one knob more than 1 parameter (which is sometimes is usefull for me), for look for the sweet spot, i think our way working on a track/song, is somewhat different. (but it always interesting, i can learn from it, and think, why didn't i use that before, but my way of working begins from sounds, sounddesign, and when in a mix, i have many tools, but i do not use standard a compressor or eq, or de-essers (i don't like them, for my style of music, or they don't wor), but of course when needed, i do eq, dynamic eq, compressor more for coloring).
i have a nice collection of plugins, but i use them very specific. therefore a macro system for me, i must make, i think a macro "template" for each song...

when i make music in cubase, perhaps i use the screen more, but that also because of the modular way of working... but in cubase a lot i can do with my controllers, so even in cubase, i don't look that much on the screen.

your story is in a way correct, for you, and i agree about the limitations of cubase. that is why i have more DAW's, i didn't thought i would have that many DAW's as i have now.

they inspire me in, because of workflow, their possibilities, so when i work in ableton, or maschine or cubase, different results, and most of the times in maschine i make the basic arrangments (great workflow with machine mk3+jam), and what maschine can't do, i load maschine as plugin in cubase.

i understand what you are saying, and perhaps the macro's you mention, is an oversight on my part. can it be usefull. but i can make in cubase a song, that works great, so that is why i call it an instrument.

i get that in instrument must be played, that is normal meaning. i mean instrument in a broader meaning. an instrument for sounddesign, how "layers" of sounds react to eachother etc.

i din't have much time to use bitwig studio fully, i also invested in MPE stuff, roli seaboard block + lightpad M, so more focused on MPE (and yes, bitwig is great for MPE, only i seem to forgot where there was a small YT tutorial via roli i think for biwig, how can use the modulators for MPE, yes i know about "experessions" (they have forgotten lift, for roli, but cypher 2 for instance or LION, can still work with lift). and strange that the blocks aren't natively supported, but it works when you use the lightpad M as generic controller, or else some functionality does not work).

so i am entering the realm of bitwig. it is difficult to predict. but i think the outcome will be, i will keep all DAW's.. and the drivenbymoss scripts, are great. also have, of course a push 2...

o know i understand what you mean with a sweetspot, the term is mostly used for another thing, for the modulation. mmmmh, that is great advice. i will write it down. the modulation per device isn't difficult, but the modulation possibilities of bitwig are more extensive, cross-track? or isn't that possible.

i must still learn the DAW, i mean bitwig studio.

thanks for your reply!
win 10 pro; cubase 10.5 pro, live 10 suite+push 2, reaper, reason 11 suite, bitwig studio 3, maschine mk3+jam, arturia V collection 7, korg collection, komplete 11 ultimate, softube modular, VM, meldaproduction etc.
https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

askoan
KVRer
13 posts since 8 Oct, 2019 from Lannion, France

Post Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:36 am

As a simple hobbyist, I switched from cubase to bitwig 3 for these reasons (as others said, Bitwig as an instrument) :
- The modulators (greatest feature for me)
- The Grid
- The fast FX workflow (like Ableton)
- Custom controller scripts (found an awesome and clever BCF2000 script)

The things i miss the most
- step input in the midi editor. This simple thing is a huge miss.
- track freezing. I just can't include Lush 101 in bitwig because of that. Workarounds for this precise functionnality are pointless to me.

Despite the missing functionnalities, i have much more fun using bitwig as an instrument to tweak things around.

WasteLand
KVRian
892 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:06 am

askoan wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:36 am
As a simple hobbyist, I switched from cubase to bitwig 3 for these reasons (as others said, Bitwig as an instrument) :
- The modulators (greatest feature for me)
- The Grid
- The fast FX workflow (like Ableton)
- Custom controller scripts (found an awesome and clever BCF2000 script)

The things i miss the most
- step input in the midi editor. This simple thing is a huge miss.
- track freezing. I just can't include Lush 101 in bitwig because of that. Workarounds for this precise functionnality are pointless to me.

Despite the missing functionnalities, i have much more fun using bitwig as an instrument to tweak things around.
my push 2 controller is taken over, in a great way. but the pages i think lack some functionality:
8 encoders per page. no buttons (momentary, toggle or step (= for instance: filter types, for every button that cycles through settings)).
for sounddesign it is limited. i have also a panaroma p1, i can control vst plugins better in cubase with the panaroma p1, or with my novations (automap, that doesn't really work in bitwig).

but the grid is great (although i have several soft modular ecosystems, that i most likely use most, the grid, is perhaps a nice addition for within bitwig, how exactly i will find out, by experience).

i can get why bitwig works better than cubase, but in my experience i can control cubase better and better, because of working with ableton and maschine (and maschine i make basic arrangments in it, and then as plugin in cubase, or basic arrangments, it depends...).
also i have put a lot of time to improve my sounddesign skills, i will never be an expert, but i am totally focused on what i want to achieve. and i can also achieve in it cubase.

the FX workflow is faster, indeed, but i am so used to cubase, yes it takes time, but that time i take to really get focused. but indeed something that really can be improved in cubase.

in ableton, maschine or bitwig it is much faster, for dialing in the right effect, i mean choose one, or more.

but i don't dislike it that much in cubase, it gives me other things.

yes the modulators and the poly grid are certainly thé bitwig strengths, that's why i bought it, to really really try it, a demo mode without saving, you don't want that, what if you make something great? let it stay open for a week?

also the midi editing has a kind of MPE functionality, that you almost do a melodyne (wich i don't have, variaudio performs pretty well) with midi? i still haven't the time to delve into bitwig. i do it in steps. and read manuals, look at YT vid's (sometimes only 2 minutes is enough to understand something).

o well this is too much KVR: defending cubase. i always think cubase will disappear at some time, but it the DAW, with all its limitations, but is also very powerfull, and the workflow, for me so, perfect.

and i like ableton, reaper, maschine, reason 11...

but i can understand, that you prefer bitwig above cubase.

and i am still new, although i know what i have bought... i am somewhat repeating myself, i thought i never thought that i would own (yes own...) 7 DAW's, and that i don't lose control, that it expands what i do.

it matters what workflow is suitable for you, for me. i use several programs, for making and editing samples. from scratch. i hop around. sometimes it works in maschine sometimes it works in ableton sometimes it works in cubase. every song i make has a different approach.

and i have give me the time, not completing tracks, but to experiment, to learn more about synthesis, etc. etc. to make use of everything i have.

strangest thing, i thought bitwig: ableton would go, no ableton has its power for me, bitwig feels different, so different songs, still my style.
why do mention ableton, that it would go, and just before in this post: cubase.

that i find the worflow in some DAW so complete, that i don't use cubase anymore. but i always return, and everything i learned, i do it the cubase way. it has improved my control over cubase for full sounndesign (as i did before, but now more precise, more knowledge, experience).

disclaimer: i will never say that one DAW is better than the other, FL studio is frowned upon, for instance; i know people who use the program, and make music at a very high level. to acquire als FL studio, or studio one. that is too much...

i did response to you post, about the controllers, for instance, but i am bit obessive with control... i want a hardware feel. that is my bias, for instance.

but is nice to feel, to discover the DAW's, and that they all work differently for me, i can feel which DAW i must use, i start with sounds (i make myself).

like a normal studio.... with a lot of ecquipment...

as i said, i couldn't predict this, even that i have smaller, very smaller secondary studio...

but i really get, why you prefer bitwig. and that i like, the differences, not the same opinions (but i hate the hate debates...), because it is simple: different music, different approaches. i can learn from all posts. thinks i didn't thought about. i can even learn from somebody with a setup, that is totally hardware. (and that is nothing special of course.)

i am myself curious what i will do with bitwig. i know my soft modulars, but in total DAW environment, although ableton is quite capable of modulation stuff, perhaps with modulat, and some other M4L devices even more experimental. but i thought a long time about modulat, but strangely i don't miss it in ableton.

therefore bitwig, and modulat was for me almost as expensive as bitwig studio... (and modulat can't be resold...).

sometimes you want another approach, i can choose now. it can be overwhelming, but that feeling is completely gone. the only problem i had was always, how to use reason 10 in my workflow, so i finally bought also reason 11 suite. i always go all the way. cubase pro.. ableton live 10 suite + push.

yes, expensive. but the pleasure i get, what i learn, i have my goals, and i feel i am getting closer and closer. still learning, and love it. and like my own music, hahaha.

i must listen more tracks in music cafe. i am interested in stuff, that is made bitwig, i don't see that a lot strangely, or miss it, the text... or isn't mentioned. or look the wrong way.

not to inspire me, only to learn techniques, the possibilites, and to make them my own.

have fun! and if have some music on the net. i am always interested. i am also a simple hobbyist.
win 10 pro; cubase 10.5 pro, live 10 suite+push 2, reaper, reason 11 suite, bitwig studio 3, maschine mk3+jam, arturia V collection 7, korg collection, komplete 11 ultimate, softube modular, VM, meldaproduction etc.
https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

askoan
KVRer
13 posts since 8 Oct, 2019 from Lannion, France

Post Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:06 am

WasteLand wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:06 am
o well this is too much KVR: defending cubase. i always think cubase will disappear at some time, but it the DAW, with all its limitations, but is also very powerfull, and the workflow, for me so, perfect.
Indeed, Cubase is awesome in many ways. I'm thinking about creating midi sequences of plucks and strings in the Cubase midi editor, then export that to Bitwig for this being a great sound design tool ; cubase midi sequencing being way more fluent to me.
Plus, i think this might force me into a more effective way of practicing (harmony first, sound design second).
I agree with you that multiple Daws can be an advantage, not necessarly slowing you down.

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