Comping without loop?

[MBO]

Sounds like you want to be able to simply record over existing clips and have them automatically form a comp group - rather than the current behavior which allows you to record over, but does not magically put them in a comp.

If you click on the audio input and look in the properties, there are a few options for 'record mode' - by default, clips are simply overlayed - we could add the option to create comps to this list

Exactly!

BUT, is that any easier than recording the clips over each other, selecting them all and creating a comp group?

It really depends on a recording session. If you have a part which requires many takes and a musician has to rest between them or check tuning etc., it is really handy just to continue with the same loop. Sometimes, for easier tasks, the "normal" way is enough.

Adding an option to that menu to create comps rather than overwrite when recording overlaps an existing clip sounds to me like a great way to handle this. I would even suggest a preference to choose what the default mode should be so that users can select the comping mode as their default instead of overwriting.

Exactly!

[MBO]

If you want to work like this, you could create a folder and keep adding tracks as "lanes". Very fast and easy to do. Then select all your clips and use the create comps functions. In waveform 10 the input follows track selection so that makes it even faster. I really can't see why this is so problematic. It seems very straightforward to me.

Ok, so I tried working this way. It's ok if you record one take per track or even one clip per track. But when I record takes on track 1 in loop mode and then I record new takes on track 2 in loop mode too, I have to select good parts from the first loop, then from the second one because when tracks are grouped selection for comping can be done per track not per take within a loop. And this is logical and I would not change it!

Additionally, when I group tracks for comping all clips on the tracks from this group are rendered. And this is logical too as long as a comp group is made of tracks. This is ok for final comps when song or track is ready in different versions but not applicable during normal recording of let's say a single guitar track. Of course you can move or copy clips etc. but that makes the whole process complicated.

So, I think - as proposed in the posts above - the simplest solution would be just to continue loop recording in the same clip where it started, so one can stay with comping within this particular clip.

But maybe I'm missing something and there are other options.

[MBO]

By the way I realized that a very handy feature would be a possibility to move tracks/folders by drag and drop in the tracks list.

[kozelkral]

Its an interesting idea - and one that would be pretty easy to add - so lets really run through exactly what behavior you are looking for

Sounds like you want to be able to simply record over existing clips and have them automatically form a comp group - rather than the current behavior which allows you to record over, but does not magically put them in a comp.

If you click on the audio input and look in the properties, there are a few options for 'record mode' - by default, clips are simply overlayed - we could add the option to create comps to this list

BUT, is that any easier than recording the clips over each other, selecting them all and creating a comp group?

I don't mind having multiple ways to do a task, so open to adding workflows that perhaps are learned from other hosts - if there is a particularly elegant solution you have got used to using, let us know and we can check it out

This simple explanation is that I come from using Logic Pro and got accustomed to their audio recording flow. I agree that putting tracks in a comp group isn't at all difficult, just a little bit different than I'm used to. On the other hand, as you stated, it would be easy to add the exact option I was looking for to the record mode list, and I guess I don't see why not add it? I'm sure many people who come to Tracktion DAW's have experience with a similar recording flow as I mentioned, and it would probably make them feel just a touch more at home.

[astey]

Its an interesting idea - and one that would be pretty easy to add - so lets really run through exactly what behavior you are looking for

Sounds like you want to be able to simply record over existing clips and have them automatically form a comp group - rather than the current behavior which allows you to record over, but does not magically put them in a comp.

If you click on the audio input and look in the properties, there are a few options for 'record mode' - by default, clips are simply overlayed - we could add the option to create comps to this list

BUT, is that any easier than recording the clips over each other, selecting them all and creating a comp group?

I don't mind having multiple ways to do a task, so open to adding workflows that perhaps are learned from other hosts - if there is a particularly elegant solution you have got used to using, let us know and we can check it out

I recorded bands using W11 and ran in some workflow issues. I used to record bands in Cubase, S1 and lately Reaper.
They handle recordings like this:
Create a new track, start recording (with or without loop) and the DAW will create a new take. Recording the same part again will create another take. Previous takes will be muted during recording.
Takes are displayed in new lanes attached to the track used for recording.
Takes can be edited individually, similar to regular W11 clips.

This method is very easy to manage, quick for live recording and for editing those take comps.

---

W11 offers two ways of recording & comping with respective disadvantages compared to the take approach:
Loop recording:
Doesn't allow to resume after stopping, which is kind of a special case of recording. Useful when recording alone without talking to people.
Normal recording:
Existing recordings will playback and overlap new recordings, so singers and artists get confused, because they hear them self doubled. So every previous take needs to be muted manually, which leads to the following issues onward:

• If I want to comp & edit those takes, I need to separate every take one by one in new tracks to be able to group comp them because of the following issue:
• Creating a new "normal" comping out of existing loop-comps will delete/dismiss all inactive takes of those pre-existing comps. This means I need to be aware of looped-comps (normal recordings which became to long and got looped automatically) and single take recordings all the time, so I don't delete takes accidentally by merging.
• W11 normal comps don't allow individual shifting and editing of takes.
• Creating new comps in W11 aren't backwards compatible, because they are rendered every time.

Group comps:
Isn't a fluid experience for live recording either.
Every new take needs a fresh track and new input routing.
After recording further challenges evolve: I need to create folders or submixes to process all those tracks (takes) like a single comp. Collapsed submixes & folders don't display waveforms, but rather rainbows of clip tracks. It's really hard to keep track of the complete song, if every comp becomes displayed as a rainbow folder.
(Note: Group comp is a very useful and creative tool in other situations than band recording)

---

I highly suggest to adopt the comping & take approach of other DAWs to ease up the workflow of W11+.
For example Reaper: It has a nice way of comping. It also separates overlapping clips vertically which is a clean way of displaying audio & midi information.

[Watchful]

Astey, thanks for posting this. I am just getting into this type of analysis myself on comping, and you've saved me a great deal of time. My initial read is that a lot of work needs to be done in Waveform on comping.

[astey]

Astey, thanks for posting this. I am just getting into this type of analysis myself on comping, and you've saved me a great deal of time. My initial read is that a lot of work needs to be done in Waveform on comping.

Its a pleasure
Thanks for joining me here.

Midi recording & comping:
Recording and comping e-drums and synths with bands becoming even more challenging, because W11 supports midi comping just in form of a single continuously looping take... but there are little to no bands who record complete songs in "one take song loops".
No creating midi comps nor group comp available with midi.

[Watchful]

A continuously looping take isn't comping, as there's nothing to compare, right? This is embarrassing to learn, as I recommended using Waveform's comping feature to another person last month specifically for MIDI comping. I never used it, and just assumed this basic functionality would be there. The manual is very vague on comping, and your discoveries have me increasingly concerned that comping is only half-implemented in WF11.

[astey]

A continuously looping take isn't comping, as there's nothing to compare, right? This is embarrassing to learn, as I recommended using Waveform's comping feature to another person last month specifically for MIDI comping. I never used it, and just assumed this basic functionality would be there. The manual is very vague on comping, and your discoveries have me increasingly concerned that comping is only half-implemented in WF11.

My current experience showed me that I need to work with a different DAW with bands.
It's a ruff lesson engineering current projects.
Yet, W11 is ready to teach me another one. I noticed batch & multi normalizing isn't possible. So, there will be long nights ... until I finish latest projects.