Roland Cloud

[Shiek927]

They now seem focused on Zen-Core Model Expansions based on the Jupiter, SH-101 and Juno. Why they would spend their time doing that when there's already plugins of those exact synths released when they could do a V-Synth, JD800, Fantom series or anything new is something I don't understand. It makes me confused on why there's a "request an instrument!" section on their website because I don't think anyone could have expected they'd do Zen-Core and they seem focused on going in their own direction rather than doing anything people say anyway. They usually just give boilerplate "added to the list!" responses to questions like that.

Exactly what I thought, It seems they have gone full circle in rehashing the rehashes, they are now releasing emulations of the previous emulations ad infinitum.

Yeah, it's just really bizarre. Like others have said, there's loads of classic stuff in Roland's back catalog they could work on, but they seem determined to go down a road that just isn't to my preference.

I personally don't care for any number of cut-down CPU-friendly approximations because, well, there's loads of those scattered over the internet. It's not difficult to find sample libraries of any synth you can think of. The issue is that, besides being very limited, most of them are really terrible. The allure of Roland Cloud for me is that I no longer have to feel tempted to go onto Ebay or Reverb.com and spend thousands of dollars on a niche synth. I could just have it on my computer once they get around it. It's the question of when or even if they plan too.

I guess we are a niche to Roland, and they want to get hold of the largest market share possible and it seems that they think that offering dumb down preset libraries is the way to go to entice new users to subscribe to their service.

This isn't new, this is the way technology goes nowadays just look at apple's approach with the iOS thing, it seems that this way of carrying business has standardized, It doesn't mean that pros aren't going to get attended but it means that we are going to have to be really patient while they try to please those users till boredom.

Considering I've also more than had my fill of analog synths with there seemingly being a new Minimoog, Jupiter or some such classic analog synth being made into a plugin on a very frequent basis, and my interests now being more focused on old-school digital synths like the Waldorf Q, Novation Supernova, V-Synth, JD800 and all the rest, my interests are definitely very niche

[gentleclockdivider]

But I think that Zen Core is because they are seeking a platform that could be used in their own hardware synths as well as in Roland Cloud. Zen Core is that platform.

^ This

According to Roland Cloud, the specs of the JX-8P include:
-Model expansion for Zen-Core hardware
-Swap model expansions and load sound instantly.

These points don't apply to the Jupiter-X(M) because the JX-8P model is already included. So, it seems to imply that the JX-8P expansion can be loaded into the Fantom, the MC and the RD-88, and that's not possible at this point in time. It's kinda confusing.

But also this. It's confusing and it would be nice to know what technology is behind it. ABM or yet something different?

I've posted a support ticket at Roland, asking whether I will be able to use the expansions to Zenology on my MC-707.

As someone has pointed out on the gearslutz forum , ABM is essentially the zen core engine but with scaled parameters ,specialised input gain ( for filters etcc ) and macro's
So basically every zen core engine is capable of loading these .

[Stefken]

As someone has pointed out on the gearslutz forum , ABM is essentially the zen core engine but with scaled parameters ,specialised input gain ( for filters etcc ) and macro's
So basically every zen core engine is capable of loading these .

I read the posts on GS. Interesting read.

I came across midi designer pro 2 to tinker with it but that seems to be ios only. Anything for PC?

[Chrisk-K]

As someone has pointed out on the gearslutz forum , ABM is essentially the zen core engine but with scaled parameters ,specialised input gain ( for filters etcc ) and macro's
So basically every zen core engine is capable of loading these .

But the key question is, "Do current Zen Core hardware synths have *internal slots* for new ABM models?" Why doesn't Roland give us a clear answer? I'd buy an RD-88 in a heartbeat if I could load a couple ABM models into it.

[Stefken]

As someone has pointed out on the gearslutz forum , ABM is essentially the zen core engine but with scaled parameters ,specialised input gain ( for filters etcc ) and macro's
So basically every zen core engine is capable of loading these .

But the key question is, "Do current Zen Core hardware synths have *internal slots* for new ABM models?" Why doesn't Roland give us a clear answer? I'd buy an RD-88 in a heartbeat if I could load a couple ABM models into it.

It seems do-able. ABM *seems* to be just an extra layer above the core engine. And the drop in polyphony *would* be because they use the more cpu intensive modules from the core engine like the VCF filters etc.

I guess it would be in Roland's interest to release ABM on all zen-core hardware. Then they can sell us a bunch of extra models . And they would do right by the customers as they stated that sounds could be transferred across different zen-core hardware devices.
We just have to be patient.

[Lucastyle]

They now seem focused on Zen-Core Model Expansions based on the Jupiter, SH-101 and Juno. Why they would spend their time doing that when there's already plugins of those exact synths released when they could do a V-Synth, JD800, Fantom series or anything new is something I don't understand. It makes me confused on why there's a "request an instrument!" section on their website because I don't think anyone could have expected they'd do Zen-Core and they seem focused on going in their own direction rather than doing anything people say anyway. They usually just give boilerplate "added to the list!" responses to questions like that.

Exactly what I thought, It seems they have gone full circle in rehashing the rehashes, they are now releasing emulations of the previous emulations ad infinitum.

Yeah, it's just really bizarre. Like others have said, there's loads of classic stuff in Roland's back catalog they could work on, but they seem determined to go down a road that just isn't to my preference.

I personally don't care for any number of cut-down CPU-friendly approximations because, well, there's loads of those scattered over the internet. It's not difficult to find sample libraries of any synth you can think of. The issue is that, besides being very limited, most of them are really terrible. The allure of Roland Cloud for me is that I no longer have to feel tempted to go onto Ebay or Reverb.com and spend thousands of dollars on a niche synth. I could just have it on my computer once they get around it. It's the question of when or even if they plan too.

I guess we are a niche to Roland, and they want to get hold of the largest market share possible and it seems that they think that offering dumb down preset libraries is the way to go to entice new users to subscribe to their service.

This isn't new, this is the way technology goes nowadays just look at apple's approach with the iOS thing, it seems that this way of carrying business has standardized, It doesn't mean that pros aren't going to get attended but it means that we are going to have to be really patient while they try to please those users till boredom.

Considering I've also more than had my fill of analog synths with there seemingly being a new Minimoog, Jupiter or some such classic analog synth being made into a plugin on a very frequent basis, and my interests now being more focused on old-school digital synths like the Waldorf Q, Novation Supernova, V-Synth, JD800 and all the rest, my interests are definitely very niche

Yeah I'm also starting to really dive into some of those vintage digital synths, I was hoping a Roland Jp8000,V synth, Jd800 would be next but it seem that will have to wait.

[gentleclockdivider]

As someone has pointed out on the gearslutz forum , ABM is essentially the zen core engine but with scaled parameters ,specialised input gain ( for filters etcc ) and macro's
So basically every zen core engine is capable of loading these .

But the key question is, "Do current Zen Core hardware synths have *internal slots* for new ABM models?" Why doesn't Roland give us a clear answer? I'd buy an RD-88 in a heartbeat if I could load a couple ABM models into it.

It seems do-able. ABM *seems* to be just an extra layer above the core engine. And the drop in polyphony *would* be because they use the more cpu intensive modules from the core engine like the VCF filters etc.

No new filters are used , it are the same zen core filters but with different amounts of input gain , and frequency scaling etcc...

[Chrisk-K]

No new filters are used , it are the same zen core filters but with different amounts of input gain , and frequency scaling etcc...

Interesting. So, I guess the 3 different vintage filters on the Jupiter-X are basically the same as Zen Core filters in the Fantom with a few tweaks.

[Stefken]

No new filters are used , it are the same zen core filters but with different amounts of input gain , and frequency scaling etcc...

Interesting. So, I guess the 3 different vintage filters on the Jupiter-X are basically the same as Zen Core filters in the Fantom with a few tweaks.

FYI
Quote from GS:

"There are 4 different VCF (high quality) low-pass filters in zencore - with variable slopes.

in different places they are called VCF1/2/3/4 and also VCF1/JP/MG/P5.

the Jupiter 8 uses VCF2/JP - juno/JX-8P and SH-101 all use VCF1 with differing vcf gain corrections. It's also amazing how much difference scaling and range limiting make."

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=4295

[gentleclockdivider]

Exactly ,it's the zen core engine + tweaks that is used for the emulations , which is also the reason why it falls short in certain emulations simply because of the zen core architecture
-Sh 101 model , filter can not be modulated by noise
-jx8p has only 2 sync modes
-xv 5080 misses some partial structures ( hard clip and some ring mod modes ) , which is why certain presets will sound totally off .
The majority of peope simply don't care and /or don't know , but Roland should stop using the words 'accurate modelling ' in their promo blurb

[fmr]

The majority of peope simply don't care and /or don't know , but Roland should stop using the words 'accurate modelling ' in their promo blurb

Good luck with that. Roland has a long history trying to persuade people about the "accuracy" of some of its models that aren't "that accurate" after all.

I tyhought they had stop that with the ACB thing, but it seems they got back to some old habits

[Shiek927]

Exactly ,it's the zen core engine + tweaks that is used for the emulations , which is also the reason why it falls short in certain emulations simply because of the zen core architecture
-Sh 101 model , filter can not be modulated by noise
-jx8p has only 2 sync modes
-xv 5080 misses some partial structures ( hard clip and some ring mod modes ) , which is why certain presets will sound totally off .
The majority of peope simply don't care and /or don't know , but Roland should stop using the words 'accurate modelling ' in their promo blurb

Yeah. Even with other companies like Korg, they promise total accuracy, but their Triton plugin (which I love and have wanted for years btw) lacks sample import and some other things from the original despite promising complete accuracy. I'm starting to be really wary of companies that promise these things with great big adjectives, because it often ends up being less than the case haha.

[Shiek927]

They now seem focused on Zen-Core Model Expansions based on the Jupiter, SH-101 and Juno. Why they would spend their time doing that when there's already plugins of those exact synths released when they could do a V-Synth, JD800, Fantom series or anything new is something I don't understand. It makes me confused on why there's a "request an instrument!" section on their website because I don't think anyone could have expected they'd do Zen-Core and they seem focused on going in their own direction rather than doing anything people say anyway. They usually just give boilerplate "added to the list!" responses to questions like that.

Exactly what I thought, It seems they have gone full circle in rehashing the rehashes, they are now releasing emulations of the previous emulations ad infinitum.

Yeah, it's just really bizarre. Like others have said, there's loads of classic stuff in Roland's back catalog they could work on, but they seem determined to go down a road that just isn't to my preference.

I personally don't care for any number of cut-down CPU-friendly approximations because, well, there's loads of those scattered over the internet. It's not difficult to find sample libraries of any synth you can think of. The issue is that, besides being very limited, most of them are really terrible. The allure of Roland Cloud for me is that I no longer have to feel tempted to go onto Ebay or Reverb.com and spend thousands of dollars on a niche synth. I could just have it on my computer once they get around it. It's the question of when or even if they plan too.

I guess we are a niche to Roland, and they want to get hold of the largest market share possible and it seems that they think that offering dumb down preset libraries is the way to go to entice new users to subscribe to their service.

This isn't new, this is the way technology goes nowadays just look at apple's approach with the iOS thing, it seems that this way of carrying business has standardized, It doesn't mean that pros aren't going to get attended but it means that we are going to have to be really patient while they try to please those users till boredom.

Considering I've also more than had my fill of analog synths with there seemingly being a new Minimoog, Jupiter or some such classic analog synth being made into a plugin on a very frequent basis, and my interests now being more focused on old-school digital synths like the Waldorf Q, Novation Supernova, V-Synth, JD800 and all the rest, my interests are definitely very niche

Yeah I'm also starting to really dive into some of those vintage digital synths, I was hoping a Roland Jp8000,V synth, Jd800 would be next but it seem that will have to wait.

Oh gosh, yeah. I'm up to my ears in classic analog synths which is why the latest trend of doing the Oberheim OB-Xa that Arturia and Synapse Audio doesn't really appeal to me. I'm just done with analog synths, real or otherwise. I'd rather companies dig into vintage digital synths that were classics in their own right (e.g. JP8000, Clavia Nord Leads,), really pushed what you could do sound-design wise (e.g. Roland V-Synth), or just plain sounded good (e.g. Novation Supernova, Waldorf Q)

[nix808]

do you have the Nord G2 demo, Shiek?->
https://www.nordkeyboards.com/downloads ... modular-g2
it's a candidate for finest digital synth

[Shiek927]

do you have the Nord G2 demo, Shiek?->
https://www.nordkeyboards.com/downloads ... modular-g2
it's a candidate for finest digital synth

Ohohoho, I'd personally give that candidacy to the Waldorf Q for having the best virtual analog engine imo, but I'll check it out!