KNIFONIUM synth released

[Niowiad]

You're really very involved if it doesn't really bother you, and if you wanted to let it go, as you've mentioned a couple of posts ago.

It's fine by me if we want to move on, I won't take it further

I see Knifonium mainly as a bass-synth so it doesn't bother me too much

I'd really recommend this:

just email brainworx about it already, if you are so passionate about VST quality.

I said it was fine by me if "WE" wanted to let it go, but the post later made by Zoopy sounded quite accusatory, so, please...

By quoting me you cut out a significant part "I see Knifonium mainly as a bass-synth so it doesn't bother me too much, but I sure can't deny the issues in the upper range".
That phrase was about the fact that the last few pages weren't even about discussing if aliasing in Knifonium was problematic or not, but they were entirely focused on acknowledging/denying its very existence, which, as I said, I sure couldn't deny.

[Ploki]

I wonder if Thorn has the same problem? Because when i use mouse for changing wavetable position, filter frequency or spectral filter parameters, they change very slow, like with some lags indeed, that was a little disappointing at first. Is that the same behaviour with Knifonium?

no clue, will give it a shot.

I'd really recommend this:

just email brainworx about it already, if you are so passionate about VST quality.

PA has a habit of ignoring and demonising people who point out flaws with their gear, and a record of it.
They stopped going to gearslutz because they refused to acknowledge broken meters on one of the first bx_consoles on release.
I opened 3 tickets about another plugin and they got closed without reply.
Just recently they had a massive purge of support emails "if your issue is not resolved, write again"

just email brainworx about it already, if you are so passionate about VST quality. interesting discussion (minus people straight up being insecure for no reason), altho I still feel like I'd rather you just *make music* and post it in the threads of the synths you like and paid for. this discussion has been had so many times, like about soundtoys decapitator which is maybe one of the most popular saturation plugins of all time and it is on literally probably thousands of records/films/game sound design etc and it supposedly aliases and does anyone who is actually making art that people enjoy care? Did I notice aliasing in the sound of Hyperlight Drifter? So many accomplished professional artists use plugins you would deem unworthy of your time, while you passionately march forward in pursuit of VST purity, people are making art that is changing people's lives, inspiring them and giving them joy. but people already said this to you a couple times in this thread so idk, i guess i learned something? I hope brainworx fixes any problems with the synth, it just came out, i'm stoked to use and learn knif as an instrument, it's inspiring, unlike this thread. please look at yourself in the mirror next time you are making horrible sounds and drafting analysis images.

Also your point is as asinine as they get.
Imagine someone would say to Bach when he was anal with tunings "just like, make music man". You'd still be using some pythagorean shit to make your music with.
Also - this is a plugin forum - and music and sound have a tech side beside the obvious artistic (or not so artistic) side.
I'm not saying knif being underdone even compares to the impact that tuning had, but technical scrutiny and understanding was and is a major driving force of music progress and creativity. Ignorance, not so much. The argument "just make music" is pointless. You could pick any point in history and say " just make music ". Why even use synths? Or instruments? Just use stones and primitive flutes.

Also - when i bought an acoustic bass from thomann and one of the tuners didn't work, I wasn't "stoked about learning a new instrument" - i wanted a replacement freakin tuner because the bass string couldn't be tightened to a tension.
Parameter lag is not something i'm stoked to learn about, i'd want it fixed so it can be used like every other plugin parameter in existence. But I lost hope in PA long ago - so if a plugin doesn't work upon release i'm not holding my breath.

if you guys keep rewarding half-baked releases - that's what you're gonna get - more half-baked releases.

Aliasing is not the only cause of that though. Some soft synths simply have a hard cut at some frequency, or a step curve, and you hear that. Gives them that tinny, dampened shit sound.

Funny that we discuss that here though, because, both of the Brainworx synth (Oberhausen and this) IMO don't suffer from that.

the discussion on how to make saws and squares which are saturated with high frequency harmonic content sound good in a cramped environment such as 44.1 sampling rate is decades old. U-he wrote papers on it if i recall correctly.
There are more than a dozen discussions on max/msp forums about that. Every solution comes with its own drawbacks and CPU cost...

This osc sounds like someone who wasn't a part of those and just winged it "they probably won't notice and drank enough kool-aid to swallow it" and slapped a bunch of saturators on it.
or the big boss just said "we need this out by july". The parameter lag bug certainly smells of it. Wouldn't even pin the blame on the devs.

[vurt]

Personally I've enjoyed the aliasing discussion. I'm a huge fan of soft synths, but I do think a lot of them sound weak at higher registers. I like that people have bothered to explain and show it as clearly as we see here.

yup and its remained fairly civil (by kvr standards especially)
i dont see the problem in wanting better, when we know better is possible (not perfect, just better)

[chk071]

It's just funny that we discuss this, which probably only very few really hear, while other plugins sound like freaking crap in the higher registers, and noone ever complained, even though you see it really clearly on a frequency analyzer that there's a steep curve, or even a hard cut at some frequency.

Anyway, roll on...

[vurt]

Anyway, roll on...

good idea! it is 10 am

[Ploki]

It's just funny that we discuss this, which probably only very few really hear, while other plugins sound like freaking crap in the higher registers, and noone ever complained, even though you see it really clearly on a frequency analyzer that there's a steep curve, or even a hard cut at some frequency.

Anyway, roll on...

which plugin released this year?
It's simply expectation vs delivery - PA has very heavy-handed with their marketing and conjured insane amount of hype with this synth pre-release. And the delivery is lacking - some things (like parameter lag) just aren't working, and others aren't done nearly as good as on other 50/70% less expensive VAs.
As i said, there's been a lot of discussion on how to handle high-frequency content of saws/squares in digital synths. "Just wing it" is not a good choice on a supposedly premium synth with a 299$ price tag
(yeah i know, it's a fake and overblown tag - which is another thing worth discussing but not here)

edit:
there's also their track record of (not) fixing stuff that are obvious flaws for months because they make more money on new releases. You directly support or not such practice with your money, and since they don't listen to anybody except money, creating awareness of it on forums is literally the only way of preventing 2030 being year of waves, slate and PA while all smaller devs go either belly up or they start adopting the same shoddy MO

[dionenoid]

Personally I've enjoyed the aliasing discussion. I'm a huge fan of soft synths, but I do think a lot of them sound weak at higher registers. I like that people have bothered to explain and show it as clearly as we see here.

yup and its remained fairly civil (by kvr standards especially)
i dont see the problem in wanting better, when we know better is possible (not perfect, just better)

Yep indeed. This is actually a pretty good technical discussion. And it confirms what i was hearing when demoing.

[machinesworking]

Aliasing is not the only cause of that though. Some soft synths simply have a hard cut at some frequency, or a step curve, and you hear that. Gives them that tinny, dampened shit sound.

Funny that we discuss that here though, because, both of the Brainworx synth (Oberhausen and this) IMO don't suffer from that.

Aren't those attempts at masking aliasing you're describing though?

[chk071]

I think (not sure, I'm not a developer) that it mostly helps with CPU usage.

[vurt]

I think (not sure, I'm not a developer) that it mostly helps with CPU usage.

yes, by taking a short cut to deal with aliasing rather than better programming.

[vurt]

look, i get that for certain genres it might be oess of an issue, a dense mix for example with a lot going on will distract from such issues.
but for more "intimate" mixes for want of a better word, where there is maybe only a couple of elements, it can be more problematic.

[chk071]

I think (not sure, I'm not a developer) that it mostly helps with CPU usage.

yes, by taking a short cut to deal with aliasing rather than better programming.

This is from a synth which has been released about 1 1/2 years ago (which still gets a lot of rave here, BTW):

Synth_XY_unknown_spectrum.jpg

If that is bad programming for you, then so be it.

[chk071]

Anyway, leaving the field for the guys who know much more than the developers do.

[vurt]

I think (not sure, I'm not a developer) that it mostly helps with CPU usage.

yes, by taking a short cut to deal with aliasing rather than better programming.

This is from a synth which has been released about 1 1/2 years ago (which still gets a lot of rave here, BTW):

Synth_XY_unknown_spectrum.jpg

If that is bad programming for you, then so be it.

as you yourself said...

hard cut at some frequency, or a step curve, and you hear that. Gives them that tinny, dampened shit sound

dampened shit sound doesnt sound great to me?

[chk071]

Exactly.

I just wanted to say that, if you say that that is bad programming, then I take your word for it.

I wouldn't go as far as that though. I would just say that it's a bit too much of a compromise. And that I just don't get the .